Just what is Recovery and how do you know if it’s happening? Recovery for the Sex Addict is a term used for the period of time after the addict acknowledges their problem and makes a commitment to change their lives.
Recovery is difficult and the addict may have many relapses of acting out. Recovery can include Sex Addiction counseling, inpatient treatment at Sex Addiction clinics, counseling for childhood, anger or abuse issues, 12 step meetings and use of resource materials such as books and web information on Sexual Addiction.
The success rate for Recovery from Sex Addiction is similar to other addictions which is about 5%. The most important factor in a successful Recovery from Sex Addiction is the determination of the addict to get well. This determination requires a complete mind shift and a true commitment to a new life style.
Many Sex Addicts claim to be in Recovery but continue to act out for years. Some even say that they have just resolved themselves to the fact that they will act out. This is not true Recovery even though these people may continue to attend 12 step meetings and participate in counseling. Until and unless that mind shift occurs Recovery will not be successful.
I can assure all of you from my own personal experience with my husband that Recovery from Sex Addiction is possible. It is hard work for both people, it takes a long time, often years, just to reach a place of comfort, it requires understanding, education and a lot of compromise. But, in the end both parties emerge stronger, more independent and much closer in their relationship.
Please share with us your experiences with your spouse’s or partner’s Recovery program.
Fall seven times, stand up eight. ~ Japanese proverb
Shanna,
I for one have two children and I don’t feel like raising a husband as well. Men are supposed to lead and protect us not the other way around. Be strong!
Shanna,
Not to speak for JoAnn, and she can certainly offer her own opinion, although I believe that we are of like mind on most things.
Most of the literature out there, was written by clinicians (mostly male and mostly recovering addicts) who are capitalizing on this illness and not written with the partner in mind. Patrick Carnes for instance, will label you a “co-addict” and tell you that you are just as sick as he is, if not sicker. Most partners, feel completely insulted by this, as of course, it is nonsense. I have not come across a situation where someone ONLY needed 1-3 years of therapy and 12-step and poof, he’s fixed. In fact, I believe that REAL recovery is quite rare; not impossible, but very rare. And like JoAnn said, he will ALWAYS be a RECOVERING addict. Unfortunately there is no cure, nor exoneration from this disease. It is lifelong battle, and very few can maintain sobriety—LONG TERM.
Can he stop? Can he stay away from other women? Can he be honest and loyal to you? I believe that for a time, he can… but unless he can get to the bottom of it, and truly NOT WANT TO BE THAT MAN ANYMORE… and not be that man anymore whether he is with you or not, then… no, I do not see any hope for his recovery. Even if he does get the bottom of it, and even IF he wants to stop, I have seen so many men, who simply cannot do this. And yes, its achingly sad… and my heart goes out to any woman who’s suffering from the effects of this, cause its effing hell. Its like our loved one is actually two completely separate people and sometimes I believe that is exactly what they are. They are the man you fell in love with and then his evil twin comes in and takes his place!
I too, have (or had, before the BIG revelation 4 months ago) a great relationship with my husband. And after 25 years, we’ve had more trials and difficulties that would’ve put a lesser couple in divorce court, decades earlier… but, the proverbial straw (for him) was the loss of his means of support 10 years ago, and shortly thereafter, is when he began his “secret life.” My first discovery was 5.5 years ago, when I found his cyber smut OPEN on my laptop. Unlike your h, mine is a massive geek. Ironically, I was slow to get online and on email and I imagine that he thought that I would never be able to figure it all out.
I made him move out which he did a few days ago… I feel like I’ve just had a leg amputated. While it was what I wanted it also wasn’t what I wanted. Who the hell wants any of this? We just want the man back, that we thought we had married! But alas…
This is an extremely easy addiction to hide. And yes, addicts just find better and sneakier ways of hiding their addiction. In fact, a common excuse is… “hey hun… going to a meeting!” (wink, wink)
It sounds like he hasn’t hit “rock bottom” and many addicts never hit rock bottom and even when they do, that sometimes isn’t enough.
In closing, I just want to say how sorry I am that this is what your situation is. I have found blogging, and talk therapy, very helpful and just trying to figure out what it is that I want. Please remember that you are not alone and that there’s good help and support available!
All my best ~ Lexie
Continued from last posting….
He has had multiple affairs on me and in therapy during full disclosure has admitted he cheated on his first wife too. In the past he’s paid for prostitutes but only when he wasn’t seeing anyone. Of all the criteria for sex addiction, he has done all except for cyber as he does not know how to use a computer and has no desire to learn. He admits he is a sex addict – a term his therapist helped him get past the denial of. He says he’s totally changed his mindset and is now a different person and has even said there were days he wished he’d get caught so he had a reason to get help. But should I believe this? He refused therapy the first time I caught him being unfaithful but this time he offered to go on his own. I wish I had a crystal ball and knew if he would relapse again….
My dear Shanna,
I am so sorry that you have to endure the effects of this awful disease. My heart goes out to you and I hope you know that you are not alone.
I hate to tell you, but his words and behavior are typical of a Sex Addict in denial.
Totally changed his mindset? How?
The causes of this type of compulsive behaviors are deep seated and rooted in the addict’s childhood. Without decades of therapy there will be no change. He may think that he has changed, and he may really want to change, but, unfortunately he cannot change that quickly nor can he do it by himself.
Almost every woman on this site who has gone through discovery has heard those exact same words that your husband has spoken to you. It’s classic. They want to believe that it is that easy to ‘change’, but that is impossible.
If he is serious about wanting to become a better person, and if you are willing to go through decades (yes–decades) of therapy, roller coaster emotions, more disclosures (yes,unless you had a full disclosure followed by a polygraph test I can guarantee that there will be more disclosures during the course of recovery) and relapses, lies, successes, failures and stress for you and him beyond anything you can imagine, then you and him may have a chance.
Sobriety from the acting out is only the beginning. The rest of the story is long and difficult.
If you cannot live with not knowing when or if he will relapse, then believe me, you cannot stay in this relationship, because that will always be a possibility for the rest of your life. That doubt will destroy you if you cannot accept it. This is not just my opinion, that is the cold hard facts of addiction.
He is an addict.
Once an addict, always an addict.
My heart goes out to you my dear. Stay strong, but do not live in a fantasy world and do not believe him if he says he has changed. He cannot change. He can only learn to manage his disease.
Joann,
Does it really take decades of therapy? I’ve read it takes between 1-3 years of therapy plus attending the 12-Step program. Your post above scares me into thinking there is no hope for us. Is that true when he seems to be doing so well in therapy now and is agreeing to attend the 12 Step program? I feel like all my hopes are going down the drain now.
Dear Shanna,
I certainly did not mean to scare you, but I do not want to give anyone any false hope either.
These men are so severely damaged that they cannot recovery easily. They can start down the path of recovery if they really, really are committed to doing the hard work and relearning a lifetime of unhealthy coping. I am not saying that it will take decades before you see any results, but what I am saying is that you and he will have a very rough and rocky road for many, many years.
As a beginning he needs to get out of his denial and realize that this is not something that is ever ‘cured’. He must learn new ways of coping with stress and begin therapy to examine and work through whatever caused him to be this way. He most likely has undiagnosed Personality Disorders that will also need treatment and counseling.
Then he needs to be totally transparent with you by allowing you access to everything…credit card bills, phone records, bank statements, receipts for cash spent and allow you to check his computer use or cell phone whenever you choose. If he is ready to make that commitment to being open and honest with you, then that is a start.
You must learn to set boundaries for his behavior and hold him accountable if he does not respect those boundaries. He is like a child and must learn how to act like an adult and take responsibility for his actions.
It will be up to you to decide if, over the months and years, you are seeing a slow and steady improvement. There may be relapses or there may not, but you need to realize that there could be and have a plan in place, and discuss it with him about what you will do if that happens. I can tell you that there WILL BE deception on his part as lying is the last thing that they give up, and most are never able to give it up as it has been their lifelong defense mechanism, so, you must realize that you will have to rely on your instincts rather than his words to know if things are going well.
It is not easy. But, if you and your husband are willing to do the hard work then you can make it. But just remember, you can never go back to ‘what it was’ because what it was was a lie. You can go forward but your relationship will be very different.
Good luck to you my dear. You will be in my thoughts. ~ JoAnn
I have been with my husband for over 11 years, (married 2.5 years). 6 years ago I found out he had cheated on me while we were dating long distance. I broke up with him but after 6 months, I could not move past him so gave him another chance. Things were going great so we married in May of ’09. Now last July, I found her number on his cell bill and investigated and found they had never quit seeing each other at all. So our entire time together he’s been unfaithful to me. He has been in therapy since late July and at times wants to quit – saying he’s fixed of the sex addiction he was diagnosed with. I told him I can’t stay with him if he quits therapy. So he made the decision to continue therapy and we attend church on a weekly basis. He says he will start a 12 Step program in January. He seems to really be trying to get well I want to believe now that he’s got this label, he wants to get fixed from his past. He was fondled by his older brother when he was a child. And then he was taught to use women for one thing only at a very early age. Can he really be on a path to recovery or am I just wishing for the best for our marriage? We get along so well and love each other deeply. My fear is if he relapses, he will just lie better than before and after being with this woman for so many years straight, can he rid himself of her?
Glad that I can share the pain here without identifying my self
after 15 years of being married to a sex addict. He cheated me with every women he possibly could, including my friends when they were spending nights in our house, in our car, even in our office when I was in the room few feets away from him breast feeding our baby. I was informed by his employees after he had had sex with most of them. What a shame, it has been 3 month n I still feel the fire in my chest day n night. Going for councling but always asking my self: what am I really hoping for? What r the chances that he is serious about recovery? Will he really leave all the women around him for me? Have no idea!!! N
Hi again everyone.
I was a bit quite the last few weeks but I did read each and every comment. We moved houses and I was really busy as you can imagine.
A quick update: We have gone trough the therapy at church and low and behold nothing has changed and I can feel it in my gut that he is acting out. He has not touched me in 2 weeks now and any intimate contact is initiated by me AGAIN. He has not opened the Bible once since he proclaimed that God is helping him win this thing and I have never seen him pray. He is soooo friendly again just telling me that he is getting his fix……
I would like to agree with Lexie (again haha). I myself will NOT stay if I had the financial resources to just leave. In fact I have this new fantasy of him coming home to an empty house one day. It sounds cruel but no less cruel than what he is doing to me and my kids.
I am also working hard at finding employment in order to be able to look after my two beautiful girls. I hope all is well with you guys and thanks for the support.
Love R
(((hugs))) checkmate. You’re not alone. This is a great place for support and also the sister site, (SOS) which carries a small nominal fee, but also much more of a forum. I have done as you… gone back and remembered what was going on in real life… and yes, its all beyond painful and the learning curve for what we are actually dealing with is quite steep.
my best,
Lexie
Was unable to type more in the first comment box.
Today, he is at his second visit with a psychiatrist with backgound in sex addiction and has had a full set of std testing, clear except for HPV, which he claims is the type that causes cold sore/lip blister kind of outbreaks. Don’t buy that, because he has had unproted oral sex with prostitutes at massage parlors he has admitted to.
Making my way through each day as best I can, and feel that I go in and out of shock, mostly when a new revelation comes out or I try to put together the timeline and understand what I thought was my life.
Unsure of what the future will be, except that it will be me who chooses what happens from here on out.
Decided I had to stop lurking and start posting.
My husband is a sex addict. We have been married 31 years and he has been acting out for at least 16 of those. His behaviors started with porn, moved quicly to strippers, then on to massage parlors and prostitutes.
After seeing frightening behavioral changes, I sat him down and pressed him as to what was going on. It has been a terrible 3 months of one revelation after another.
I found out he went for hand jobs on his lunch hour. He went to massage parlors before lunch, or after business dinners. He watched porn at sex shops, in hotel rooms while traveling and on his computer during the work day.
Hi Angela,
That is a very good question. I had to go back and read a bit more about your situation. I’ve been with my husband for 25 years and married for 23. I’m scared shitless, but I’m taking steps to leave.
My question to you is how do you have the courage to stay? Honey, your life is too precious to be subjected to this kind of abuse. That’s how I feel, because that is what it is. Can he change?
no. he doesn’t want to, badly enough and furthermore, even if he did really want to, I don’t think that he can. He’s been doing this for 30 years? He’s a swinger and he knew that he was a swinger before he met you and yet he’s not swingin’ with you, is he? Now, why is that? Its because what fun would it be, unless he was fucking someone over while getting his erotic high? That’s why. Its not because of something you said or that you don’t give him enough sex or a particular kind of sex or anything else, (no matter what lame excuse he tries to give) but the fact that having someone who actually gives a damn about what he does or doesn’t do, is part of “fun.”
And its sick fun.
Honey, I’m scared, as I said. really, really scared, but what I do is this… at least once a day… I see myself in my new life. I was looking at apartments the other day and saw one that I loved and then I saw myself living there, and fixing it up and finally not having that dead ball and chain hanging on. I see myself feeling light and open and very busy with my work and busy with my friends and is there another man in my life? right now, I don’t care if there is or there isn’t. And I will tell you this, as well. I will never ever (I truly hope) find myself in a position where i’m in any way dependent on a man.
If someone gave you a million dollars, would you stay? If the answer is no, then that is your answer. We mustn’t make this about money. Make your plan. Get counseling…I find it very helpful. I’m not sure if you work or not, but even if you never have, you can still get a job. Go for career counseling. There are options and there’s help available.
See yourself living the life you never even dared to dream was possible.
it wasn’t possible.
not with him.
my best and love,
Lexie
Lexie, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again… you, my dear, are the wisest woman Evah! Love and appreciation for your wisdom and truth! Love, Liza
I caught him again last night with a Ipad,that I didnt even know he had bought.He left and I feel it is over for good this time!!!!!!!!!!! He had been attending the meetings and seeing a therapist. And still looking at porn. He has BULLSHIT me for the last time as well as our family.
Laura,
AM is right. Of course this isn’t what you want. You want the man you thought that you fell in love with, but unfortunately, he doesn’t exist.
My husband also told me, 5 years ago, that it was just porn and chat…
nope. it wasn’t. and then… he kept leaving his shit for me to discover… how very, very painful this is.
It is extremely rare that its “just” porn and chat. He only stopped because you discovered it and THEN, he woke up???
nope, again. Oh, he might white knuckle it for a while… but then.. when things have “settled down”… yeah… and every time you leave him alone or take a trip or HE takes a trip, do you really wanna have to burn a whole in your stomach with worry?
I don’t.
Honey— I know this is very tough, but you are not yet married, you don’t have children and you’re solvent.
Leave.
Just pack your things (or make him pack his things) and leave.
I promise that you will never regret it.
If he’s truly this incredible guy who just went astray, then he WILL move heaven and earth to be THAT man and to earn back your trust, but first you must leave the relationship and then, date other men, if you feel like it.
There are TONS of men out there. And healthier ones too. i always recommend therapy too, but I also believe that having a thing like this doesn’t necessarily increase our chances of it happening again. I think it increases our chances that we will know what to look for– right from the getgo!
my best ~ Lexie
How do you get the courage to leave?
I am so thankful that I found this website, it is helping me through my current situation and has encouraged me to share my story. I have been with my fiance for about a year and a half now. My fiance and I have been engaged and living together for four months. I am guilty of being secretly nosey and I am fully willing to admit that.
In early October, I found some old bank statements that belonged to my fiance, with charges listed from four different online dating websites that went up to May 2011…I was devastated and confronted him and after some hesitation, he admitted that he had taken two other girls out on dates earlier this year that he had met on these sites.
-Laura
I asked him if he had gone to strip clubs since we had been together and he admitted to that also, and admitted that he had gone once a week until May of this year. He also admitted to looking at porn on his computer and cell phone after being confronted with evidence of that. Last but not least, I gained access to his online cell phone bill and saw that he had been talking to lots of other girls, one in particular his co-worker…there were so many texts and calls to her.
He states that he has never had sex with anyone but me throughout the duration of our relationship. This all stopped for the most part around May, but I am so devastated and having terrible trouble coping with this. The main reasons for me staying is that I do love him and for the fact that he did stop this.
He has changed his phone number and deleted his old e-mail address associated with the porn and online dating sites. He says he will do anything to make this work and that he only cares about me.
I wonder if this was sexual addiction behavior due to the fact that he was not just seeing or communicating with only one other person. I also wonder if he has lots of repressed feelings and unresolved issues in coping with his Mother’s death (passed away in January 2010).
I will never justify his behavior and I think that if we stay together, he will have a long road of rebuilding trust. Sometimes I feel like I want to leave him, but I am not completely sure that is what I want. I have a self-supporting job so I don’t stay with him for fiscal support reasons. I guess I would just be interested in others opinions and insight at this point.
Thank you so much for reading.
Laura –
Stay nosey. It will save you years of heart ache. Find out now. If it is truly sexual addiction, he will promise to stop. However, as with any addiction, it is more likely that he will not. That he will become that much more careful.
Do you truly believe that, with all those calls, all those meetings, he never had physical sex with anyone? When you check in with your intuition, do you feel that your are just talking yourself into believing because you so desperately need to believe?
Is this possibly related to the death of his mother? Yes. Many sexual addicts fall into the arms of their addictions with a vengeance when a major life event rocks their world. Like any addiction, smoking, overeating, gambling, they use it to run from their feelings. Does this change the fact that the addiction is running his life? He is willing to have all these sexual acts, while saying he is committing himself to you. Do you really feel like he has been committed to you? Are those the acts of someone who has your best interests at heart?
How long we he stay stopped? How long will be hold out before he decides it is safe again? Before he has another stressor that causes him to run to the drug of sex again? Can you stand to commit your heart and your life to somoene who falls back into sex with strangers as easily as you might give in to buying that pair of shoes you have been wanting to much? Buys women like ordering off a menu?
Take care of yourself, first and foremost. Statistics say the men like this are very few. But we, somehow, will find them again and again because of how we allow ourselves to be treated, without realizing what we aren’t getting from the relationship in the first place. Find out. Be wary.
Stay nosey.
Rachel,
I am just saying error on the side of you. Right now, it should be all about you. It doesn’t matter where he is in so-called recovery, so what. Protect your sanity, your heart, your body, your spirit.
These SA’s will cut it all out without a blink of an eye. You are the only one who should matter right now.
I should be in bed… but this is my escape from my own pain… Don’t worry… I spend a lot of time… not escaping from it too…
I know its tough. I too, am not in a good financial situation, although I DO work and own a business, but I live in a very expensive area and cannot move because we have a special needs son in high school.
One last word… He’s gonna hang on for dear life here… why? YOU, are like the baking soda in the cake batter… without that, the cake ain’t gonna rise very much! His script is to have the “normal” life AND all the rest too. Believe it or not, most of these guys have convinced themselves that whatever they do has NOTHING to do with you and furthermore, they can’t help it and/or are entitled to take whatever they can get. Too bad they failed to clue us in, before we agreed to marry them? right.
Even the fact that he has “one foot out the door”, is so gross… I can’t tell you… and YES! That right there is proof positive that he is in no way committed to YOU and YOUR marriage! sorry, honey… but its not about you at all; he’s very sick and he’ll line up a new woman to hoodwink… and do the same to her… oh well… and yes… the selective memory thingy… well, you get it. its total crap!!!
I’m really sorry. I feel so badly for you and all of us. Stay strong and congratulations on choosing YOU! You’re undoubtedly the best thing that ever happened to him… and he blew it.
my best ~ Lexie
Lexie,
Thank you for your honesty and of course you are 100% correct. I think I only realized yesterday exactly how big a liar he is. I asked him for the truth he said he had told me everything and whalla!!! I found out so many things yesterday it is shocking to say the least…his defense was that he had “blocked it out” which I also found in the early hours of this morning to be untrue, he just lied AGAIN..
I will absolutely never be able to trust him again he actually admitted on “keeping the backdoor open” because he is not sure if I am going to leave him of not! If that is the case he sure as hell was never committed to getting better.
I am out of work at the moment so packing up and leaving is out of the question. He refuses to start divorce proceedings as he says he wants to make it work. I do not see the point….I have lost all respect for him and I cannot trust and obey a husband I do not respect.
I also know that God is on my side and that He would not judge me for what I am about to do.
I unfortunately do not have the financial resources at the moment to join the support group. I have already informed the therapist though that the focus has changed with regards to my therapy, I no longer want to fix the marriage..I want to fix myself.
Hope you all have a much better day than I am having. Today is Day 1 of rebuilding my life.
rld,
short learning curve, huh? So sorry, about that, but you get it and I believe that you are doing the right thing in dumping this very sick creature. Brava! ~ Lexie
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I’ve been reflecting back on our relationship since his “voyeurism” came to light. All the sexual comments and the groping and the staring (over the past 3 years) has made me feel like a piece of meat, an object…not a person – especially someone his is suppose to love and respect. Knowing that this part of my life, as well as his inappropriate peaking at my daughter, is over gives me a great sense of peace. I’m excited to move on with my life without him! It feels amazing to be unburdened and free from his sexual perversions. It’s always hard to start over…to make changes in life. This is a change for good – I can feel it to my very core.
Take courage Rachel (and anyone else struggling with a sex addict husband). Free yourself – even if the road ahead is hard.
rldtorls
Oh, honey— Okay, hang on… because this is going to be difficult reading, but it is said with love and concern for a woman who’s deeply hurting, as we all are.
First of all, you are right… He IS quite AMAZING, quite the “package”, but… he is DEFINITELY NOT the kind, considerate, loving husband that you thought you had married.
Not even close. In fact, this is THE most dangerous kind of sex addict, that there is. A sociopath. He lacks the ability to truly empathize. He married you under false pretenses and doesn’t see a problem with that. The ONLY remorse he feels is when he gets caught. And he doesn’t even see what the big deal is, in the first place.
This is what your husband does.
1) he’s been acting out since the day that you met
2) he was acting out while you were in the hospital with BOTH miscarriages
3) he doesn’t satisfy you sexually
4) he’s a compulsive, pathological liar
5) he was chatting with another woman on your BIRTHDAY, after he said that he would stop.
6) he doesn’t “understand” why THAT is a problem?
7) he’s a massive CONTROL FREAK
Take your husband out of the equation. If a friend wrote all of that to you about a man she was married to, that you hadn’t met, what would you think? Would you think that this was a “nice man?”
no, of course not.
The “nice,” “loving” thing he does is all an act; he’s an extremely dangerous, cunning, manipulative, very, very SICK con artist. That is who he REALLY is.
And why on earth do YOU, have to deactivate your facebook account and delete names from YOUR cell phone?
YOU, are not the one acting out; that is total crap. He’s the untrustworthy liar!
I’m so sorry, that he’s done this to you. Its disgusting and he will get his– in time.
Oh, and we do NOT recommend couple’s therapy for couples where a partner is in active addiction. It is a recipe for more hurt and trauma— GUARANTEED. You need your own private counselor who understands the trauma model for partners and symptoms of PTSD.
Honey, is there hope, for HIM? I truly do not think so. He’s so far into his addiction that recovery is extremely unlikely, and will take years, and years of extremely hard work, but usually these types just figure out a way to do it “better.” He’s fake and phony, all the way, including his sudden newfound “faith” in God. He makes me wanna barf all over my laptop.
This is an excellent article from Psychology Today,
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201107/porn-induced-sexual-dysfunction-is-growing-problem?page=2
that JoAnn posted on the sister site. If you would like to join and receive support on the forum, we would love to have you!
There is lots of great support on there, from many, many fantastic, women who are going through much of the same that you are; we get it and we understand completely, everything you are going through, because we were once, “you.”
my best and with love,
Lexie
I got remarried 3 years ago. The man I married is a sex addict. I discovered last week that he has been watching my 17 year old daughter in some very private moments and enjoying himself in the process. He has been through counseling, the 12 step program again and again. I have been patient, understanding, supportive through all of this. Now he has crossed the line into voyeurism. I’m done. I will not let his addiction ruin my life or run the risk of him having a physical (unsolicited/unwanted) interaction with my child. Sexual addiction is a horrible sickness that is progressive in nature. With a 5% chance of recovery, the odds are not good. My life and my happiness is more important.
jeannette and AM
Are you guys trying to tell me that there is no hope for recovery?
Rachel,
Run, cut your losses now. If you read the different threads here, you will see this is a common attribute of these ruthless SA’s. You would think they are the nicest, kindest people around. It is all an act and a way to control you.
He has shown his colors, this is what your future will be. Do you want to find yourself at this place 5, 10, 15 years from now.
Read, read, read the stories here until you are sick to death of them. It will not change!
Hi Everyone,
Goodness its good to realize that I am not alone.
Firstly I have to say I have a truly amazing husband – kind considerate really attractive the entire package….so this makes what I am experiencing now a 1000 times more difficult. Also having this happen with both my marriages – you can only imagine what my self esteem looks like right about now! My first husband was easy to let go of because he was just a nasty person all round, this one however presents a challenge for me as I cannot seem to marry the nice him with what he has been doing.
I just recently discovered that he has not been faithful to me for even one day since we met. He has a porn and sex chat addiction of note. Even when I was in hospital for my 2 miscarriages he would go from tending to me (very lovingly I might add) to sex chatting with his regulars partners.For the record: I did notice that something was wrong with our sex life I just never got a true answer from him until I moved out of the bedroom 8 weeks ago….
There are many details etc. but posting them here will not relieve my anxiety and state of mind. He has admitted his addiction and tried to be as truthful as possible. He says that he does not want to loose me and that he would do whatever it takes to heal from this addiction and have a normal relationship once again.
I laid down some rules (which he gladly accepted) in order to help me regain control over my feelings on insecurity etc. One of these rules were NO CHATTING TO UNKNOWN WOMAN. And low and behold I saw a new unknown woman on his bbm on my birthday no less! he did not understand my heavy reaction towards this as it was innocent according to him. That may very well be true but we had an agreement. He explained that it was a girl from work who had asked him if she could invite him – my response to this is he should have said NO!. He did delete her and apologized the next day for not thinking it through. I was forced to delete every single male from my cell phone after this argument – even though these were people WE had been friends with for years. I was forced to deactivate my Facebook account even though I was not the one misusing these things for cheap flirtations and sex chats. No I am totally isolated from all support networks (friends etc.).
We are currently undergoing therapy and he proclames that God is helping him. I am not so sure that this is not another manipulation tactic as he is well aware of how important God is in my life. How can God help you if you do not pray and if you never touch the Bible??? Also we each received a booklet from the therapist that we are expected to complete before our next visit. Mine is complete but he hasn’t touched his.
I truly do not know what to think because what he says he wants does not correspond with his actions or am I being unreasonable?
Thinking back his kindness was always just a form of manipulation as he knows that I am not the type of person who would be ungrateful. He manipulates me with kind words and truly amazing gestures.
I am at a loss……Most people who know him will not even believe this about him…
Any advice?
Rachel,
He is a kind man. When he is completely drugged out on lust, he can be incredibly kind. But watch what happens when you lay down your boundaries and stick to them. When you find evidence and confront him. When you get too close to the addict. Then you will not recognize the cruel, hurtful, blaming, minimizing, attacking, empty boyman that you will face. You will be baffled as your brain tries to wrap itself around the image he made up, and the angry selfish child behind it. Like the Wizard of Oz, you will finally see behind the curtain.
If you can live with his manipulations, his self pity, his lies, then you will have your kind man. If you let him drug himself into a happy stupor forever.If, however, you want more from life than a sham relationship, leave this one behind. Addiction is forever. There will always be a chance of relapse. Worse, the vast majority of time it escalates. He WILL be physically unfaithful. You will NEVER know what he is thinking. You WILL hurt every day.
If you stay, think long and hard about why. Otherwise, find a better life.
Oh Gawd– Angela… 30 years? a swinger? a pathological liar?
how many more years do you keep trying? Trying for what? To make your pervy pig into a prince?
If he is a swinger, then he should’ve married another swinger, right. But, he didn’t, did he?
Now, why do you think that is so? (but don’t think too hard, cause you’ll hurt yourself)
How do you earn back the trust???
what effin trust?
Honey, it was never there, to begin with; not with him.
I’m sorry. He’s a fake and a fraud and he done do a massive con job on you and yeah… it sucks; it sucks–big time!
Take care of you, now… I know just how devastatingly painful this all is… I was involved with a swinger/SA and my husband is a SA. I have HPV, (the cancer causing kind).
Choose life. Save yourself honey.
My best and love ~ Lexie
I have been married over 18 yrs.How many more years do I keep trying? I found out he and his ex wife would swing and Im sure ther is alot I dont know.He has been an addict over 30 years.He always told me he had a high sex drive.But now I know he is a addict.How do you get the trust back,when it keeps happening over and over again.
I’m so glad to have found this website. I have been married 8 years. 4 years ago, my husband admitted to sleeping with prostitutes and strippers, as well as an enormous porn and sex chat addiction, during the first four years of our marriage, including during both of our pregnancies. It has been an incredible rollercoaster. I wish I would have read about this trauma, early calm, PTSD idea back when I first heard his confession. That is exactly how I felt for a long time. I did eventually argue that I had a form of PTSD, which was seen by many as a sort of exagerration but I had no other way to describe it. At worst, I concluded that my initial reaction of calm and of, say, not throwing him out of the house and immediately filing for divorce was a sign of hope, of being able to overcome this, of my love for him, of commitment, etc. I think really, it was just absolutely shock. My husband did take responsibility and showed great willingness to recover. While, in the past 4 years, there have been some porn-related slips, there has been no more cheating, so far as I can tell. My reason for beliving him is the difference in reaction he has had over the years – he’s not defensive, doesn’t fight my accusations, is calmly open to my questions, feels I have the right to my feelings, etc. He acts like someone with nothing to hide. We have been in counseling for 4 years. We recently separated because I had to face the fact that, while things are better, stable, peaceful, even good… to say the magic is gone is an understatement, at least for me. I had to face the fact that while we both shared a pain about all of this, he has the privilege of still being madly in love with me, of seeing me intact and good and worthy, and I remain…broken. I needed space to just focus on me, think about alternatives, etc. He moved out for a few months, we co-parented our boys (now ages 4 and 6), we drafted a legal separation agreement. We were able to experience, and imagine, what divorce and a two-home family would be like. We reconciled in June. Its been two months and I’m still trying to wrap my head around my decision to keep going in this marriage. On the one hand, things are good. They really are. And he’s a better man, father, and spouse for all that we have struggled together. The man he is today is a kind, loving, generous, sweet, intelligent, successful man. Our home is peaceful. And he is the father of my children, and a good father. Our boys are happy. We don’t have to sell the house, our home remains intact. These are all good things. On the other hand, I see the marriages of my friends and family members and, while they are not perfect and while I know that I can never really know what goes on in other marriages, there is a sort of… lack of utter brokenness that I miss, that I know I can never regain with my husband, and that makes me so sad. I’m 33. I have my whole life ahead of me. I do love my husband. I find him attractive and I have gained a new respect for him because of these years of hard work. But I am sad. I am just sad at the whole thing. You know that feeling like, if you could do it all over again, of course you’d marry him? That, despite his flaws, he’s “The One”? That you just accept him for all he is, and he accepts you, and that is what love is? I feel like I will never quite have that. Would I marry him all over again? Ummm, no. No I would not. I would have married my ex-boyfriend if I knew then what I know now. Is he the love of my life, the One? Well, my “the one” certainly wouldn’t have spent 4 years screwing hookers. Is my life better because of him? Well, I’d have to qualify that. Given reality, given our children and our family and our professional dreams and so on, my life, as it is today, is better/easier/more supported with him than without him. Isn’t this all so sad? But its like being between a rock and a hard place. Its either accepting this sadness and moving forward with what is otherwise good, or going through the pain, complication, and destruction of a divorce, a two-home co-parenting relationship, of introducing (eventually) new people, new family systems, into this increasingly complicated situation, a greater financial burden… and no less sadness. I don’t want that either. I don’t even want to lose him. Anyway, that is where I am at. And I don’t know what more to expect, or how to think about all of this. Thank you for letting me vent.
I am so sorry to read of your struggles with your husband. I, too, live with that overwhelming feeling of sadness that I will never again love my husband as I once did. Thinking of you… Liza
Laura 2,
If you or anyone else has any advice, I welcome it.
Thank you so much for responding. Your feedback is comforting. This all starterd about a year and a half ago. I apologize in advance for the details but I really need to get this off my chest. One day he sent me a short porn story that he wrote to my email. I didn’t really care for it but I told him it was “nice”. Then he started sending me pictures of himself. Again, I told him “great pictures” but that him in real life was better. Then he told me that he was posting these stories and pictures on his myspace page and that some women were asking for more. He said he blocked anyone that asked for more. Then one day I was using his laptop (mine was broke) and I saw a shortcut that said “my videos”. I wasn’t spying on him, the link was right there as soon I opened up the laptop. Naturally I opened it. I found 2 videos of him pleasuring himself and a video of a girl pleasuring herself. I couldn’t see her face but I’ll never forget the image that I saw. I knew he looked at porn and told him i was ok with it as long as there was no chatting, live web cams and they sure as hell better be over 18. The suspicious part was that the link was was made from his camera phone. He tried to tell me that the video of the girl did not come from his camera but was a pop up on a porn site that he downloaded. Upon further snooping, I found about 200 pictures he took of himself in different poses.(He used the timer on the camera to do these.) I was in shock and disgusted. Then at one point he had asked if I was willing to go to secret S&M type clubs..not to participate but to see if we would like it. That was a no go for me. Then he had told me that a co worker asked if we would be interested in swinging. Again, a no go for me. After a long discussion he agreed because I told him to picture me sleeping with another man. He said “oh hell no, I couldn’t share you with anyone else”. There were also times that he wouldn’t be able to “perform” due to him watching too much porn. When he’d back off the amount of porn, things would be good until he started watching more and more..the cycle would repeat.
At the time all this was happening, I was dealing with a major medical issue so I think my mind wouldn’t let me “deal” with what was happening in our marriage. Also, during this time we never fought…we’ve ALWAYS been able to talk about anything without fighting. Typing this now, it was all so obvious and I should have left back then.
A few days ago I came back home to get more of my things and we’ve been doing some good talking. He’s not willing to admit he has an addiction but he did admit that he turned to the sexual stuff as a way to cope with his unhappiness. He knows he’s not happy with himself but he can’t figure out why and he’s not willing to go to counseling. We’ve decided to seperate for 6 months and get some bills paid off..after the 6 months, I’ll come back and file for divorce. Even talking about the finances, support and splitting household items..there’s still hasn’t been any fighting. Thank God. We’ve been hugging, crying and still reassuring the other that we love each other but that this is what needs to happen.
When I go back to my family’s house I’ll be seeking counseling, thank you for that advice.
I feel EXACTLY like what you just wrote. My husband has been doing the same for 10 years.
Mo-
A couple more points that I thought of…
1. Get yourself a therapist. Tricare is really good about covering individual counseling. I’m going twice a week and don’t have to pay anything out of pocket (on a side note, I am doing EMDR in my sessions, which is quite helpful. If you find a therapist who does this, they have to be very selective about what they put in your records, as Tricare doesn’t cover EMDR- yes, it’s working the system, but oh well.)
2. (I’m probably going to get slammed for this one.) If your husband decides on his own that he wants to change, don’t let anyone tell you that he *can’t* recover from this. The numbers are discouraging (something like a 5% long term recovery rate), but it’s not impossible. I think the motivation really has to come from within though. Keep your heart open, but keep your eyes open as well. And listen to your gut. If something doesn’t jive, call him on it. If he gets angry or defensive, chances are, he’s lying to you. If he’s telling you what you want to hear, he may or may not be lying to you. If he *knows* you want to hear one thing, but *doesn’t* take the easy way out (for example, in my case, I wanted to know if the massage parlor workers always *offered* the sex or if my husband initiated. He could’ve said “It was always offered by them.” Instead, he told me that it was offered the first time, but there were times after that when he initiated), then he could very well be telling you the truth…
On some level, I’m new to all of this as well, as I didn’t know the full extent of my husband’s acting out or have an admission on his part that he’s a SA until a month ago, however, the years of mini-discoveries kind of prepared me for what was coming, so for me, while it was shocking and devastating, it was also kind of an “aha!” moment. Alot of things started making sense. And as my husband gets more comfortable sharing with me and gives me more pieces of the puzzle (figuring out what his triggers are, remembering things from his childhood that may have contributed to this) things start to fall into place even more…
Mo-
Sorry you’re going through this. You say that you left three weeks ago, but didn’t realize until a couple of days ago that he was an addict. I take it you made some discovery 3 weeks ago that made you leave (or that you had already made a series of discoveries and had enough)? What was it that made you think he’s an addict?
As far as counseling goes, as long as his therapist doesn’t think he’s going to harm himself or anyone else, everything should be kept confidential, so he shouldn’t be worried about being labeled as a SA by the military.
I didn’t actually get my husband to see that he’s a SA. Yes, we had years of “mini” d-days (phone sex, porn, adult personals), and I think I threw the term around a few times, but I never had any concrete, undeniable evidence that he had cheated, and the stuff I was finding wasn’t having enough of an impact on our lives to make me see how severe things were. All his friends watched porn and went to strip clubs, and most of their wives didn’t care, so I guess I thought I was being a prude. In any case, long story short, my husband made a decision on his own about 15 months ago that he couldn’t continue living the way he was. Tried going it alone (with some success) for a few months, then decided to start therapy about 7 months ago. About 4 months ago, he decided that he needed to come clean to me about everything, but held off until a month ago (wanted to get through the holidays first.) He didn’t come to the realization that he was a SA until he attended his first SAA meeting, which was a couple of days before he disclosed everything to me. Prior to that, he knew something was wrong with him, but didn’t really believe in addiction. So, in my case, by the time he came clean, he had already been working on recovery for over a year, in therapy for 6 months and had been sober from “non-solo” acting out for 13 months and completely sober from all acting out (including porn) for 5 months. So he had already had some time to clear his head before I knew for sure about the physical infidelity and the SA.
I guess what I’m getting at is that most guys probably aren’t going to be receptive to getting help unless they’re ready. You can approach your husband with your concerns (I don’t know the particulars of your situation to know what your concerns stem from), but don’t push him. It won’t do any good if he’s not ready.
In the meantime, take care of yourself, set some boundaries and consequences and make your husband aware of those. I highly encourage you to visit recoverynation.com. This site has excellent resources for your healing (and for your husband’s recovery, if he’s willing to get help.)
Take care.
Laura2 – I wonder if those are the only ones with any hope of real recovery. The ones who figured out they had a problem and were already addressing it even before anyone found out. The ones who were able to look at themselves and decide without being forced that they couldn’t live like they were, that their family and honesty were so much more important than cheap, empty, sex-drug. My SA was able to lie to me and have sex with strippers and whores for years and able to live with himself. He was fully aware of the impact of cheating and lies on a relationship, and of resources like counseling. He chose sex instead. I have seen a few changes, but he is such an addict and cannot give up his other addictions that I have no hope he can give up the hardest one to break of them all. I wished how he would have tried something, or come clean, or anything. But he has followed the addict profile to the letter, so I see only an addict future. I do believe you have a reason for real hope.
Laura 2,
I too am a military spouse in the same situation. I left my husband 3 weeks ago. I didn’t know what else to do. I didn’t realize it until 2 days ago that he’s a sex addict. I was planning to go back to our “home” tomorrow to get more of my things but now I feel like I need to stay and give him a chance. I want to go to counseling but I’m not sure if he’ll agree. Since he’s active duty I know he won’t want it on his record. Do you mind if I ask how you you got him to see that’s he’s a SA? I’m not sure how to bring it up to him. We’ve been married for 15 years and he’s my best friend. We’ve always been able to talk about anything but now he’s in so deep, I don’t know if I can get through to him.
Thanks
Laura 2,
I think its only natural that you have questions. For myself, it was a maybe a way of trying to figure out what the heck was going on, where it all went wrong, and I’ll go against the grain here and say that I just wanted to know what happened so I could determine if I wanted to attempt to stay in the marriage.
Each of us has our own idea of what is important to us. For example, in one book I read it says that some questions are relevent and some are not. They said that knowing that he had sex with other women was important, however, knowing if he had sex in your bed with other women was not important. WTF?? Excuse me, but if MY marriage bed was violated in that manner, I WANT TO KNOW. Why? Because the thing is going to be put in the garbage. My marriage bed is for me and my husband. If any perversion has touched it, it has to go.
In my case he hadn’t, however, he had photos online of himself, in our bed masturbating. The bed & mattress was worth almost 4000$, I sold it for 100$ to get it out of my house immediatly. For me, my bedroom and bed is private. Only me, my husband, or my child is allowed in that room. Not thousands of perverts online…
Don’t feel bad for asking questions, only you know what you need to know.
Laura2,
Do you want to know why because you think you could please him in this way? What makes you want to know? I don’t want to know at all. I would ask yourself why you want to know and if it even matters. You can never please a sex addict. Look at all the celebrity women who maintain amazing bodies and lives and still their partners cheat. They have so many encounters and it doesn’t matter. It is liking asking a smoker how many cigarettes they smoked last week.
Okay. Here’s yet another question. I’m still at a point where I feel the need to ask my husband a lot of questions- not details, necessarily, but things like how many times he did certain things, how many different providers he did certain things with, etc. I’m finding that my husband is *trying* to answer these things for me, but is having difficulty. He apparently remembers very little about the actual sex when acting out. He remembers things like the drive there, the wait, the layout of the buildings (massage parlors) and the shame he felt afterwards. But he can’t seem to remember a lot of what he actually did with these “masseuses” (although he seems to remember little snippets of some things.) He says he doesn’t have clear memories of his encounters and doesn’t want to, but at the same time feels badly that he can’t answer my questions. His therapist thinks that he doesn’t remember because his acting out wasn’t about the sex itself. It’s a double edged sword for me. On the bad side, I don’t have answers and God only knows what he may have done in the heat of the moment. On the good side, I’m less worried about him thinking about one of these encounters when he’s with me. Anyone else have an SA who truly can’t remember the particulars of an encounter?
I forgot too they can get arrested.
Hi Laura 2,
Its addiction that is driving his acting out. People with addictions can lose everything meaningful to them and still need to get their next fix. Its a cycle they go through on an ongoing basis unless they enter some type of treatment to learn how to manage it. Even then, there are relapes and repeated recoveries. Addictions are a hard row to hoe. Over time, they progress and get worse and the addict becomes even more addicted. They can lose their jobs, lose their wife, not able to see their kids, become bankrupt, get HIV, steal, lose all judgement and rational thinking. It can get real ugly and its all addiction driven if they dont get help.
NAP-
Yeah, I don’t want details either, because I don’t want the images in my head. I wasn’t looking for details when I asked the question, I was just looking to see if he ever had any shame / guilt / remorse while committing the act. Unfortunately, due to his misinterpretation of the question, I now have a detail that I didn’t need. I didn’t need it because I was trying to view his acting out as totally separate from any sexual feelings he had toward me, and now I can’t. Some women might be relieved to know that their husbands were picturing them while with someone else. I’m not. I’m disturbed by it.
Hi Laura 2,
I wanted to share with you my opinion about details. For me, there can be too much information. I know my husband has sex with prostitutes, goes to massage parlors, watches porn and masterbates. Do I want to know the details of these adventures and if he was thinking of me at the time…NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Why? Because that information only hurts me and serves no other purpose. I have a pretty well developed imagination (spent alot of time alone as a child) and can get a general picture of what goes on but I dont want to spend any time there because its painful. I dont want to inflict pain on myself when hes doing a pretty good job of it already. I was kinda doing the same as you were at first and my therapist helped me put a stop to it. This is my opinion about details, they only hurt.
Wow! Thanks for all the responses! What a wonderful group of women.
Dealing with a new, disturbing revelation today. Had a talk with my husband last night, asked him a bunch of questions, got a few new answers that didn’t come out initially, but nothing any worse than what I already know… except for one very strange thing that makes me think there’s some other issue at work. I asked him if he had ever once thought of me while in the middle of a “non-solo” acting out. (My meaning was, did you ever think of me, and feel guilty while in the middle of the encounter.) He hung his head, sighed and said, “Yeah, a few times.” I asked him why that wasn’t enough to make him stop and he looked puzzled. It turned out that he had misinterpreted the question. When he said yes, he meant that on a few occasions, on some level, was pretending or imagining that he was with me. And he didn’t say it in an “Oh, baby, I was with her but I was thinking of you” way. He said that “in the moment” he was picturing me and doing those things to me, but, like I said, he didn’t say it in a way that was meant to reassure or appease me. Makes me wonder if the “real” him was trying to break through or was seeing the addict’s behavior and trying to cope with the situation. I don’t know. Sigh…
Laura
I’m doing recovery nation and finding it very helpful.
I showed it to my husband a while back, becuase I asked him if he would be interested in doing the couples side of it with me. He looked at it, and at the very first was a bit resistant, as it differes from the 12 step program he is in. Anyways, he decided to look at it closer, and has really taken thier ideas on board. As he is not religious, the whole higher power thing is tough for him I think, and also, he is not accepting of the way 12 step basically says you are sick, will always be sick and you have no control over the sickness, so the RN way of learning to be healthy really appeals to him.
Recovery Nation just went through a 6 week period of programming issues where the site was down for a quite a while, and the Recovery side lost a lot of the data, so the guys are having to redo things.
My husband started his lessons a while back, but has yet to post them due to the issues. He seems to think they are of value .
Laura,
My husband sounds a lot like yours. He’s been in recovery for almost a year and he is doing well. However, whenever he says “I love you SO much”, I have every right to question what that means. He is allowed to feel what he feels, but I frequently told him that it didn’t feel like love to me and that when his behavior was consistently behavior that felt loving to me I would let him know. He used to say “I never thought of a life with anyone but you, I always pictured us growing old together.” and I would respond with “Really????And what did you think was in it for me?” and finally just said ” Remember on d-day when I discovered you were looking for apartments for you and ( young woman I had never heard of before)? Don’t ever say that to me again, it’s not true and never will be.” And if we stay together, I will feel the same way 20 years from now about that comment. Do those things hurt his feelings? Sure. Does it hurt mine that he falls in love with other women and needs the attention of adoring women? Sure.
Focus on your own emotions right now, and let him take care of himself. He’s an adult, he can handle it.
Best wishes to you in this difficult time:)
Marie
Hi Laura2,
I’m deeper into the “cycle” than you at this point. I understand your need to feel some sense of reassurance, that how you are behaving/reacting/coping is “normal”…however the reality is that *ANYTHING* you say/do/feel will be “normal” because you are reacting to a very *ABNORMAL” situation ! So I heartily agree with what everyone else has posted recommending you give yourself a break, take care of yourself, however that needs to be. Your husband is an adult, he will take care of himself. Nothing you can say or do can *make* him love you, be monogamous, respectful, truthful, etc. He has to do that on his own, by his own choice and free will. Your biggest challenge is how to pick yourself up off the floor after such an emotional knock-out blow. And that’s where Recovery Nation helped me. It takes you step by step, holding your hand as it helps you rebuild your own life. Only then can you really decide, from a rational, realistic, healthy place, if you should stay or go. ( and the choice to stay or go isn’t written in stone because your life has to adapt as the world around you may face ongoing changes)
My experience with all of this is when I began dating my husband in January of 2002. We married in May of 2003. I now know he was unfaithful since almost our first date.I now also know he has never been faithful or honest to any woman in his life ( he’s almost 40), which in an odd has been “healing” for me to discover since initially I blamed *myself*, and he was more than eager for me to take that blame!
I blamed my age ( “Z” is ten years younger than me), my physical appearance, personality, occupation, hobbies…in short, picked myself apart under a microscope rather than realize HEY!, there *IS NO* excuse for infidelity! None! There is *nothing* about me that “caused” my husband to sneak around with other women, have phone sex, hot chats, anonymous sex hook-ups from Craigs List, have paid memberships to dating/sex partner websites,secret cell phones, “girlfriends” ( who knew he was a married man, gems that these women are…) etc.
I picked myself apart to spare us both from looking at *him*. It kind of reminds me of that old story, “The Secret of Dorian Grey”.Where that charming man with the face of an angel did horrible, immoral ,cruel things, but none of his actions ever seemed to have a negative effect upon him. A picture of himself hidden away took on all of his ugliness.
His alleged “disclosure” was in October of 2009. I did not get “full” disclosure until July of last year ( 2010 ) and I’m not certain I even “know” everything now. At this point, I don’t even care to know more. It might be of academic interest, but the emotional/relationship damage has already been done.
My husband has a lot of other issues besides infidelity. In laymen’s terms you could describe him as an immature, selfish S.O.B. The clinical description seems to be leaning towards Malignant Narcissism, with perhaps some shades of sociopathy woven in. ( he came out with a 4-6/6-4 pattern with a high Pd score on his MMPI, he’s being evaluated at a local University). I don’t have the same situation as some women do where they have these men who are great husbands/fathers but have this one area….nope. I didn’t get any icing on my cake of misfortune.
Over the last several years his dysfunctions bled heavily into my life. He’s given me a permanent STD, caused me the loss of a full time job, has abandoned me emotionally, physically, financially whenever ( most of the time)whenever he saw fit. For some odd reason, he expects me to allow him to come back into my heart, my home and my body by proclaiming that he’s “changed”, “getting better is an ongoing process”, and that he “loves” me.
“Changed” is a seven letter word. He’s always lived in a world of words, words that seldom matched deeds, words that were always carefully chosen, almost like incantations, expected to have desired results effected upon the person they were spoken to. “Getting better is an ongoing process”…so is aging and in the last nine years I’ve been doing plenty of that. I’m not ok with suffering any more of my life away with his issues. And “love”…as Tina Turner said, “What’s love got to do with it!?” This isn’t love. It for sure isn’t the kind of love I am looking for/need.
He’s been out of the house several times. During those times he slept with any woman who was willing. I’m not feeling the “love”. The “ongoing process” seems to be a smoother line delivery. The “change” is coming from me.
I started back to school today, at the age of 50. I’m looking forward to *my own* future, where the “ongoing process” will focus on me.
None of our stories here will be the same, we will all have different chapters and endings and maybe even some new beginnings as well. I sense that you are kind enough to refrain from judging others. Turn some of that same kindness back on to yourself. It’s ok to love yourself. In fact, as I have learned the hard way, it’s even necessary.
best wishes to you-
Hi Laura 2,
I’ve read everything you’ve written and love your posts. You seem like a very sweet, loving, generous woman. Your husband is a lucky man, that you haven’t hit him over the head, or worse.
I don’t see anything wrong with the statement you made to your husband. In fact, it was the perfect thing to say, in my opinion. If he said “you mean everything to me”,when he was out the door to go carry on with a sex worker, how does that differ from now? At this moment in time, I’m afraid that his word is meaningless. It will take a very long time, before you can believe him. He is very early in recovery. There’s no quick fix here.
Its a line that some guys say. Its something he heard in a movie or a TV show. Does he mean it? I don’t know. Is he even capable of meaning it? unknown. My husband has NEVER said that to me and I’m sure he never will, but I do know, that I’m very important to him. Words are meaningless, no matter what. Its what he does, not what he says, that really matters. So you are not encouraging him to lie by questioning him. All you did was question his sincerity and I think that’s a healthy thing to do.
If he’s scared, well… he should be. Love yourself more. No one other person can be someone else’s “everything” in any case.
Please be kind to yourself. There is no such thing as too long a post on here or “all over the place” either. We are ALL inherently ALL OVER THE PLACE, because there is no other way to possibly be!!!!!! No apologies are necessary on here, for expressing what lives in our hearts.
I know… I felt that way,(in life) for a long time too. Worried that I was taking up someone else’s oxygen. It took me a long time to understand that I had just as much right to exist on this planet as the next one, and so do you.
You matter, Laura.
All my best,
Lorraine
A couple of questions as I am bookmarking a lot of things, both for myself and for my husband.
1. Are any of your husbands using Recovery Nation? If so, how is it going? I just started using it last night and have bookmarked the recovery side for my husband. I have told him that I cannot make him use it, but I would like him to look at it to see if he thinks it might be a useful tool for him. I think it would appeal to him, since it’s not God / religion based. Again, I made sure to tell him that it was his choice, and that he shouldn’t do it just because *I* want him to, he should only do it if *he* wants to.
2. I’ve seen various expert names mentioned in threads (i.e.: Patrick Carnes-bad, Barbra Steffens-good, LOL.) What about Doug Weiss? Any opinions? (I ask because he pops up alot when I google sex addiction recovery stuff.) His name may have been mentioned somewhere along the line, but, admittedly, I haven’t read every post on this site.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Laura2!
You asked about Doug Weiss and I wanted to answer that question as I have been a part of his program for about 18 months. I think he is excellent. He has a lot of stuff to help partners of sex addicts as well as the sex addicts themselves. I am a part of a partners recovery telephone group and am working through 2 workbook of various exercises that help me to do with my issues. This group of ladies that is lead by a therapist has been so helpful to me. My husband and i went for a 3 day intensive with Doug Weiss this past June and it was very helpful. One of the things that I liked about it was the option for my husband to take a polygraph test so that once and for all, we would have all the truth on the table of his acting out behaviors. Then we will repeat the polygraphs every 3-6 months to prove sobriety from this point forward. Also, Doug Weiss talks about something called Intimacy Anorexia which is where a spouse knowingly withholds love and affection from their spouse. Often sex addicts also have intimacy anorexia which is like a 2nd addiction that feeds the sexual addiction. From the moment my husband and I said, “I do”, he changed and was no longer interested in sex and didn’t want to spend as much time with me and blamed me for our problems. I could never figure out the change until I found Doug Weiss’ program. To finally have a word “intimacy anorexia’ to explain what I have been experiencing for so many years was so awesome for me. The 3 day intensive gave my husband and I tools to work on our own recovery as well as our couples recovery. Also Doug Weiss doesn’t pull any punches with the addicts which is nice to see. Doug was a sex addict himself and has been sober for 25 years! Unfortunately, as of yet, my husband isn’t taking his recovery that seriously even after the intensive. If you have an opportunity to read any of Doug Weiss’ books or see any of his DVDs or be a part of his recovery program, I would so do it.
We are rare, not perfect
NAP-
Thank you so much for giving me your insight. I think I was just beating myself up because I know he’s scared that I will always be angry and never forgive him. Your words have given me some hope, which I desparately needed this morning.
On another positive note, I got a call this morning that my referral for counseling had gone through. When I called to make my appointment, the receptionist asked for a brief description of what I was being seen for. I told her that I suspected I was suffering from PTSD due to relationship issues (simplifying things, I know), so she paired me with a female counselor who specializes in PTSD. I really feel like prayers are being answered for me this morning. This feeling may not last long, but I’m going to hold onto it for now.
Hi Laura 2,
I mean this kindly….you need to give yourself a break. Nothing you do or say to your husband is going to be right or wrong because its your feelings-what he chose to do affects your life too. He sounds like a reasonable man and I think he would understand that. Keep in mind, there are woman out there that would be hitting him over the head with a baseball bat…you have a right to your feelings and Im sure he expects some backlash from his past behavior.
I think the fact that he doesnt want to move to a place that is a temptation for him shows hes really thinking about avoiding triggers for his addiction. I think thats great-maybe tell him that and it will give him some positive reinforcement.
From your writings Laura 2, it sounds like your husband values you alot. You are very fortunate.
Your friend, NAP
Well, not in denial today. (Sorry if this offends anyone, but I am somewhat religious.) Maybe God was just giving me a couple of days to get my act together a little and help me realize that the world doesn’t stop turning because of this- that I still need to take care of my kids, the dog and the house. I do agree, however, that I probably am suffering from ptsd to some extent.
This is about to get long, and I apologize, but I’d like some prayers from those of you who are believers, and “good vibes” from those of you who aren’t. I’d like to share a bit more about the complexities of my situation. As I said, my husband is military. We are supposed to move out of the country this summer and are getting ready to put our house on the market. So all of that adds extra stress. We can’t focus on the move because we’re tied up in this. We can’t put as much time into recovery (individual or together) as we should because we have to prepare for the move. It sucks. And our kids know nothing of what’s going on. We don’t plan to tell them anything unless we find that we need to seperate at some point. (Well, let me clarify- when they get old enough, we will broach the subject of sex addiction, so they know what to look out for, both in themselves and potential partners, but we’re not quite sure how we’ll go about it yet.) And I’m scared of the temptations the new location will bring for my husband. He said he had thought about that as well, but is hoping he will have enough tools at that point to avoid acting out. Funny thing is, a couple of months ago, we were looking at different assignments to get out of our current location (his work situation here sucks)- one of them being the assignment we wound up getting, another one being the base we were at before we moved here. Our last assignment was a good one. We didn’t like the climate, but had lots of friends, the kids were busy with activities and it was my husband’s most successful assignment career-wise. But he didn’t want to go back there and I couldn’t understand why. The other day, when he revealed to me that it was during that assignment that his massage parlor visits had escalated to full blown sex, he said, “That’s why I didn’t want to go back there. It’s not a healthy place for me.”
Sorry. This got all over the place and disorganized.
Right now I just want to scream and cry and puke. And I’m upset right now because I hurt my husband’s feelings this morning (how stupid is that?!) He has been showing me, not just telling me, that he’s serious about this. But I was having a bad morning. As he was leaving for work, he lookd me in the eyes, held my hand and said, “You mean everything to me.” My response? “But you’ve always said that.” And now I feel like a bitch because I know he actually meant what he said. He’s been very patient with me. I know he must be frustrated because he’s so much farther along in the process than I am. He’s learning not to lie and I feel like I’ve discouraged him.
NAP, Starry & JoAnn-
Thanks. I’m in a holding pattern, as far as getting a therapist goes. My husband is military and a referral has been put in for me to be seen off base, so now I have to wait for it to be approved (which takes a few days), then call up to get an appointment. Unforunately, I think they just pick a provider for me (I originally thought I would get to pick), and the pickings in this town are slim. So, for now, I’ll probably be posting a lot on here. I just don’t understand how for the first four days I was an absolute basket case and completely obsessed with the whole situation and now, for the past two days, I’m able to function again and even laugh here and there. Don’t get me wrong, I certainly don’t feel okay- far from it, I’m just not letting it consume me right now. I’m sure I am in denial emotionally at the moment…
Dearest Laura 2,
What you are experiencing is full-blown trauma. It’s exactly the same defense mechanism that I have seen often in the ER when rape or abuse victims would come in. In fact, it was not so many years ago that law enforcement authorities would misinterpret the unusually calm demeanor of the victims to mean that they had not really suffered any trauma.
The trauma that you are experiencing is very real and very serious. You have been assaulted with such confusing and conflicting information that you are unable to process it at this time, so your body’s protective mechanisms take over and you feel and appear calm. This is usually the time that we also ‘intellectualize’ everything, desperately trying to understand it all with our head but shielding our hearts and our emotions from the pain.
Please, find a counselor who has dealt with trauma and abuse. When you finally realize the reality of it all it will be extremely emotional. No one can predict when that will happen. This is a form of denial that our bodies use to protect us. Some women can stay in that state for many months, or even years while some may face the horrible realities more quickly.
You need to take care of yourself during this very fragile emotional time. Please, find yourself a good counselor.
My thoughts will be with you. Please stay with us and let us know how you are doing.
Hi Laura 2,
I look at this like the grieving process. I too accepted things very quickly and almost felt normal! Then 2 months down the road, the gravity of it all hit me. Its been a nightmare ride since then. I was, after several months just starting to stabalise, then I finally got the whole truth, yes, he had slept with a whore. Since then my life has been a minefield. One day I accept and get on with things, other days I am paralysed and spend my day counting backwards to get the horrible images out of my head.
YOu are only at the beginning. Once you start doing some work on yourself, things may feel like they are getting worse. Or they may not.
I had a bad experience with my counsellor. Started out ok, then went bad and almost pushed me over the edge. He had me questioning my own sanity worse than my husband ever had.
Have you had a look at recovery nation yet? I really like thier program, and it helps work things through.
Starry
Hi Laura 2,
Your mind is proccessing alot of information right now, plus this new information is likely traumatizing for you. Do you have a therapist to talk to because that will be very helpful to you. If you can, its important to have one. They will help you sort through all these feelings your are having.
Again on the subject of focusing on myself- I’m very concerned that I’m accepting all of this too quickly (when I say accepting, I don’t mean condoning, forgiving or forgetting, just simply accepting that it’s happened and I can’t change what’s already done.) Am I in denial? I’m fully aware of what’s happened, but I didn’t obsess over it yesterday and am not so far today. I’m still hurting, clearly, but am still able to function. If I had gone through this 10 years ago, I would not be able to function AT ALL. Maybe I’m just in survival mode? I mean, I am not completely emotionally detached from all of this, but I’m not consumed by it right now, and it’s been less than a week since my husband disclosed physically cheating. Last night, I had a normal night’s sleep (well, normal for me anyway) for the first time since I found out. Is it too soon for me to be feeling this way? I have a history of clinical depression and fully expected to be in a deep depression for months over this. I’m not complaining, but I’m a bit frightened that this is not normal…
hurtheart-
Thanks for your reply. I’m feeling hopeful that my husband is serious and is being honest (or, as honest as he’s comfortable with at this point), but I’m still very new to this whole process, so it’s good to have reality checks from those of you who have been at it longer. Again, I’m hopeful, but it’s nice to know what to look out for.
I agree with NAP. They must pour their hearts. blood, sweat, and tears {if they’re able to produce any} into their recovery, or else it will never work. My SA gave a half-assed attempt with SAA; he went to the meetings but never did the steps, as he felt he was above them. He went to a therapist with me, lied to her left & right, then got his own therapist, and continued the lying. What I initially caught him doing was just the tip of the iceberg. When I agreed to give him a second chance I uncovered SO many more things that he didn’t confess until I shoved the evidence into his face, and even then he tried to deny it. I gave him yet another chance and he once again messed up by watching porn at his job claiming it was MY fault because I took away all his computer rights at home and also took away all money as I found out he had blown thousands on hookers. He justified why he had to watch the porn at work, which just proves he is NOT in recovery, nor does he want to recover.
I hope you have a happier result with your SA.
NAP-
Thanks for the response. I’m aware that there could be more disclosures to come, and that he may not be telling me everything. I think I’m mostly trying to avoid discouraging him right now. It’s hard to focus on myself at this point, since it’s been less than a week since *officially* finding out about the actual physical infidelity. Hoping to find a therapist this week to help with that.
I hope things settle down for you and you are able to be happy. I also hope the same thing for myself and everyone on here. None of us deserve to be going through this.
Hi Laura 2,
In my opinion, recovery would start with treatment that they are committed to and actually participating in. My husband started treatment 3 months ago but was only committed for about 2 weeks. Right now Id dont know what youd call him. A mess would be a good word. Just keep in mind, and this may not be your case, but you need to be aware that we probably only now about 10-20% of their activity. In my husbands case, its so much I just stop caring and keeping track…the point of diminishing returns. Plus its too painful-can hardly stand the things I do know.
Laura 2 it sounds like your husband is sincere about getting help right now. If you can, maybe try to focus less energy on him and more on yourself otherwise it could be draining. All the best.
I know this is an old post, but it seemed the most appropriate place to post this question.
When would you really consider recovery to begin?
I’m trying to figure out how long my husband has been in recovery. We’ve had problems throughout our marriage (first phone sex, then internet porn, adult personals, etc.), but I never knew for sure if he had ever crossed that final line and had sexual contact with someone outside our marriage (suspected it, but never knew for sure.) Some emotional stuff went on between us last summer that caused him to start seeing a therapist regarding his need for sex (we had never seriously discussed addiction before, although I had brought up the idea in passing.) Then, a few weeks ago, I made some discoveries that caused further concern on my part that he may have physically cheated, but nothing concrete that he couldn’t have lied his way out of, as he’s always done in the past. We had some serious discussions and he decided he wanted to go to an SAA meeting, which he did last Sunday. On Tuesday, he disclosed to me that he had visited massage parlors (and that, on a number of occasions, those visits involved full blown sex, rather than just a happy ending.) After many discussions this week, it came out that he had already been planning on coming clean for a couple of months, but wanted to get through the holidays first, for our kids’ sake. After further discussion this morning, it came out that he really began to see that he had a problem (although he wasn’t willing to label it an addiction at the time) and wanted to stop his behavior after the last time he physically acted out with someone else, which was 12 and a half months ago. I will not say he has been “sober” that entire time, as he has had two internet slips, but he’s clearly been trying.
So, my question is, would you consider his recovery to have begun at the point he decided he had a problem and wanted to change, when he began therapy, when he attended his first meeting, or when he came clean to me?
Thanks in advance for any insight.
I’ve been finding the resources at “recoverynation.com” to be a Godsend. It is a definite shift from traditional 12-step programs ( which I have an issue with since they seem to want to blame the partners of Sex-Addicts as being “co-dependant” and that we should have somhow known what was going on/what was being so well hidden from us!!).
I feel it’s like this: my SA husband never learned the healthy emotional tools needed to manage the normal stresses in everyday life we all have. Whatever was the cause of his not learning and instead misuisng sex to cope is his lesson to learn and grow from.
It helped me to think of it like this: I feel it’s like we are all in the pool of life and the water consists of feelings/emotions/stress/boredom, etc. Some people have an early childhood/adulthood that teaches them to swim magnificently. Most were taught just to dog paddle along. And a few were never given any lessons on how to swim at all. Those who never learned how to swim fear the water, they panic, fear they will drowned, so they grab on to the first thing they see as a “life preserver”. The problem is, what they think is a life preserver is a rubber cushion filled with pin-holes and the tighter they hold it and squeeze it , the more air comes whooosing out…and they panic even more. If they don’t learn the skills to swim, eventually they will have squeezed all the air out and they may truly drown. Learning the skills to cope with life in a healthy way, is like teaching these people how to swim.
You can’t rush over to “save” then as you may end up being pulled underwater yourself. They need to learn to let go of the addiction/life preserver and swim. And to do this, they need to learn how…which is precisely what Recovery Nation helps to do.
My family of origin did not teach us how to swim. My half-sisters are actively squeezing their leaking, rubber cushions, tighter as each decade passes. I managed to learn a very lame dog paddle on my own, but was never a strong enough “swimmer” to go anywhere but in circles ( and usually around those with the cushions…). I’ve come to realize everyone has to learn their swimming lessons on their own. Right now I am learning, via Recovery Nation, a more efficent way to swim. My husband is trying to learn to let go of the cushion and trust himself to swim for the first time. I’m rooting for both of us.
Hi S,
Thanks for the compliment, I worked very hard to get this look.
Yes this site started with a WordPress Theme, but I added a lot of Photoshop and CSS work of my own to make it look like this. The two things you can do to make WordPress look more custom is to change the colors and images and change the columns from static to elastic. I don’t like the look of a fixed column in the center of a standard WordPress color or image background–boring!
Just find a basic theme that you like and go to work. I started this design with the free theme Atahualpa, which is a magazine type theme and added my own stuff. This particular theme allows customization through the WordPress dashboard, but I always like to play around with the CSS myself.
I do have one site that I designed with Dreamweaver where I did use a fixed column. If you would like to look at it here is the link:
http://2vagabonds.com/index.html