Comments on: The ‘Quick Fix’ Trap http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/the-quick-fix-trap/ Help for Partners of Sex and Porn Addicts Fri, 18 May 2012 15:55:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: sharron http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/the-quick-fix-trap/#comment-8450 sharron Thu, 30 Dec 2010 04:50:51 +0000 http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/?p=1211#comment-8450 JoAnn-You are so helpful to me, not only in sharing the expertise you have in so many areas, but also the support you give, and with such love. Just a couple of comments in response to your last post. I definitely agree with you that I do not have the expertise to engage in regression therapy. I will say, however, the first two times I tried this with Steve I had him recall the good memories first. Happy times with family, friends, activities, etc. He could recall a few happy times, but that soon came to an end when we tried it the third time. He then began to have memories come forth regarding sexual abuse by the neighbor. This last time, it involved his mother fondling him, but could not recall where it happened, and the anger came forth very quickly so I did not push him any further. The points you brought up regarding trust with the SA was very interesting - things I hadn't thought of. Also, the fact he probably would not be able to focus on my emotions immediately following the session certainly re-inforces the fact he very well may be "faking it." I am just trying to figure out what kind of secondary gain he is getting out of making it all up - just to gain my sympathy?? Or, could it be a fantasy network of his that is somehow entangled with abandonment issues with good ole ma ma, and does he truly believe them. I know there is a lot of controversy regarding real or imagined memories. I am going to rely on your expertise regarding these SA's, and it certainly does build a strong case for "faking it." I really feel he is crazier if he is making them up than if the memories are real!! I have had many talks with his sister, who has also blocked out much of her childhood, but she is able to recall her Dad standing at a window and watching her undress. She also stated her room was the only one in the house that did not have curtains on them. She is also able to verify the physical abuse that took place, but beyond that does not have any more memories of sexual abuse to herself or Steve. I do think something went on in that home, but will it ever be accurately revealed - I doubt it. Since, I am 68 y/o and have been like a dog with a bone all my life in trying to get to the bottom of things, it will be hard to teach an old dog new tricks. But, I will certainly try to stop doing the regressions, although I guess I find them very fascinating. Thank you for all the info - you have helped me a lot. Love to You! Lorraine, as always you send very prophetic messages. These SA's obviously do have a "different brain" than we do, but the jury is still out on whether the brain changes as a result of the addiction or have they always had the addicted brain? - in otherwords, what comes first, the cart or the horse. Actually, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference - bottom line is they are very sick, right? Don't envy the passion I have for him - it is obviously very mis-directed. I do love him, and he does display many more good qualities than most of the men I read about on this site. I guess we all have to decide whether the good qualities outweight the the bad, and can we live with them under these circumstances. For me, the jury is still out. He has made progress with the addiction, but not the lieing. Thank you for your input, as well. Hugs! JoAnn-You are so helpful to me, not only in sharing the expertise you have in so many areas, but also the support you give, and with such love.
Just a couple of comments in response to your last post. I definitely agree with you that I do not have the expertise to engage in regression therapy. I will say, however, the first two times I tried this with Steve I had him recall the good memories first. Happy times with family, friends, activities, etc. He could recall a few happy times, but that soon came to an end when we tried it the third time. He then began to have memories come forth regarding sexual abuse by the neighbor. This last time, it involved his mother fondling him, but could not recall where it happened, and the anger came forth very quickly so I did not push him any further. The points you brought up regarding trust with the SA was very interesting – things I hadn’t thought of. Also, the fact he probably would not be able to focus on my emotions immediately following the session certainly re-inforces the fact he very well may be “faking it.” I am just trying to figure out what kind of secondary gain he is getting out of making it all up – just to gain my sympathy?? Or, could it be a fantasy network of his that is somehow entangled with abandonment issues with good ole ma ma, and does he truly believe them.
I know there is a lot of controversy regarding real or imagined memories. I am going to rely on your expertise regarding these SA’s, and it certainly does build a strong case for “faking it.” I really feel he is crazier if he is making them up than if the memories are real!! I have had many talks with his sister, who has also blocked out much of her childhood, but she is able to recall her Dad standing at a window and watching her undress. She also stated her room was the only one in the house that did not have curtains on them. She is also able to verify the physical abuse that took place, but beyond that does not have any more memories of sexual abuse to herself or Steve. I do think something went on in that home, but will it ever be accurately revealed – I doubt it. Since, I am 68 y/o and have been like a dog with a bone all my life in trying to get to the bottom of things, it will be hard to teach an old dog new tricks. But, I will certainly try to stop doing the regressions, although I guess I find them very fascinating. Thank you for all the info – you have helped me a lot. Love to You!
Lorraine, as always you send very prophetic messages. These SA’s obviously do have a “different brain” than we do, but the jury is still out on whether the brain changes as a result of the addiction or have they always had the addicted brain? – in otherwords, what comes first, the cart or the horse. Actually, it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference – bottom line is they are very sick, right? Don’t envy the passion I have for him – it is obviously very mis-directed. I do love him, and he does display many more good qualities than most of the men I read about on this site. I guess we all have to decide whether the good qualities outweight the the bad, and can we live with them under these circumstances. For me, the jury is still out. He has made progress with the addiction, but not the lieing.
Thank you for your input, as well. Hugs!

]]> By: fatchance http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/the-quick-fix-trap/#comment-8412 fatchance Wed, 29 Dec 2010 02:52:33 +0000 http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/?p=1211#comment-8412 Hi Ladies, There has been alot of varied and useful posts since I logged on this morning! As for child custody, I can only speak for the understanding in my state. I happen to be an attorney and work in the areas of juvenile and family law. Here, statutes are written broadly enough to interpret nearly any type of bad influence over children. Betty, I would think that even though pornography is legal it is still detrimental to children's development and morality. Pornography is legal only for adults, the way cigarettes and alcohol are legal only for adults. Therefore, supplying cigarettes, alcohol, or exposing children to pornography (because pornography is by definition used by "exposure" of lewd and lasvicious acts)would be contributing to the deliquency of a minor and detrimental to their moral, physical and emotional welfare. Fortunately, the judge in my children's case has thus far agreed with my view. I was able to talk to my attorney today as well as some mutual friends of my husband and mine. It seems to them that while my husband is acting like a complete sphincter muscle, that this is not the "real" him. One of my friends has known my husband longer than I and was aware of his SA and was suprised I recently learned about it! He said my husband had really done alot of work. It seems he had at one time because even in pictures of him, nearly everyone who knows him sees the difference in the way he carries himself now as compared to the years after treatment before I met him. I knew he was an alcoholic in recovery, but he neglected to tell me of his SA until I busted him after a period of strange behavior that seemed to come on rather suddenly. For now, we need the support finacially, especially health insurance for my son who has an AWOL father. I just started back to work and do almost exclusively indigent representaion which doesn't make you rich or provide health insurance. Anyway, I have this little glimmer of hope. I saw him and he looks like a mad man. I wonder that he cannot go on much longer like this. He's not that strong. And he has a conscious he has blocked off. Eventually, the conscious will bleed through. I just don't know if I will still be around and willing when it happens. A word about 12 step programs: First, the primary purpose is to maintain sobriety and help others achieve it. But as any person earnestly working a 12 step program will learn shortly, is that the main objective is to help the addict alcoholic find a Power greater than himself to fuel his/her life rather than the addiction. The purpose of the 12 steps is an exercise to help the recovering person discover that Higher Power and maintain a conscious contact in order to have a spiritual awakening sufficient to remove the obsession. As far as all the co-addict stuff for the parters of sex-addicts, I find it a really hard sell too. I am finding personally that working my 12 steps for another problem helps me very much in this situation with my husband. Why? I believe it's because some Sh%* is just too much for me and I need to remember not to play God. It never works for me and I try it all the time. LOL! I did alot of crying today and went over to talk to my sweet and kind neighbor with a non-judgemental heart. I just cried and cried. This is grief. My husband has been taken over by some madness and I am powerless. Peace be with us and also with them. Hi Ladies,
There has been alot of varied and useful posts since I logged on this morning!

As for child custody, I can only speak for the understanding in my state. I happen to be an attorney and work in the areas of juvenile and family law. Here, statutes are written broadly enough to interpret nearly any type of bad influence over children.

Betty, I would think that even though pornography is legal it is still detrimental to children’s development and morality. Pornography is legal only for adults, the way cigarettes and alcohol are legal only for adults. Therefore, supplying cigarettes, alcohol, or exposing children to pornography (because pornography is by definition used by “exposure” of lewd and lasvicious acts)would be contributing to the deliquency of a minor and detrimental to their moral, physical and emotional welfare. Fortunately, the judge in my children’s case has thus far agreed with my view.

I was able to talk to my attorney today as well as some mutual friends of my husband and mine. It seems to them that while my husband is acting like a complete sphincter muscle, that this is not the “real” him. One of my friends has known my husband longer than I and was aware of his SA and was suprised I recently learned about it! He said my husband had really done alot of work. It seems he had at one time because even in pictures of him, nearly everyone who knows him sees the difference in the way he carries himself now as compared to the years after treatment before I met him.

I knew he was an alcoholic in recovery, but he neglected to tell me of his SA until I busted him after a period of strange behavior that seemed to come on rather suddenly.

For now, we need the support finacially, especially health insurance for my son who has an AWOL father. I just started back to work and do almost exclusively indigent representaion which doesn’t make you rich or provide health insurance.

Anyway, I have this little glimmer of hope. I saw him and he looks like a mad man. I wonder that he cannot go on much longer like this. He’s not that strong. And he has a conscious he has blocked off. Eventually, the conscious will bleed through. I just don’t know if I will still be around and willing when it happens.

A word about 12 step programs: First, the primary purpose is to maintain sobriety and help others achieve it. But as any person earnestly working a 12 step program will learn shortly, is that the main objective is to help the addict alcoholic find a Power greater than himself to fuel his/her life rather than the addiction. The purpose of the 12 steps is an exercise to help the recovering person discover that Higher Power and maintain a conscious contact in order to have a spiritual awakening sufficient to remove the obsession.

As far as all the co-addict stuff for the parters of sex-addicts, I find it a really hard sell too. I am finding personally that working my 12 steps for another problem helps me very much in this situation with my husband. Why? I believe it’s because some Sh%* is just too much for me and I need to remember not to play God. It never works for me and I try it all the time. LOL!

I did alot of crying today and went over to talk to my sweet and kind neighbor with a non-judgemental heart. I just cried and cried. This is grief. My husband has been taken over by some madness and I am powerless.

Peace be with us and also with them.

]]> By: Lorraine http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/the-quick-fix-trap/#comment-8409 Lorraine Wed, 29 Dec 2010 02:05:09 +0000 http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/?p=1211#comment-8409 I envy so much the passion that so many women have for their partners even if the partner is very sick. I know this is going to sound very strange, coming from me...(in a kind of a cart before the horse way) but just last night, I point blank asked my husband if he had been with any other women and when? You see, believe or not... I had NEVER asked, and he had told me 4.5 years ago... that it was ONLY chat. (Quite frankly, I think its just as bad. Is he an addict? I have no idea. I really don't. And his computer is locked up tighter than the Kremlin.) Anyway, in answer to my question, he said, "one" and only one time. And it was some time in 2002. (he thinks), but I found his cyber sex chats with this woman four years LATER, that he (who is a massive geek) left open on MY lap top by accident. fake sex with a fake man. now a dead horse lying in the road. that's my husband. He's my prince who turned into a frog. I wish I even cared. Oh, I'm hurt alright... but, I'm like a zombie just going through the motions of my life. (except for my kids). I've really been like this for years, I realize. I'm totally burnt out from my business and have lost my zest for life. And my children have sucked the very soul out of me. I'm tired. I can't focus.(at least not on what I'm SUPPOSED to be focusing on) I don't know the answer. And yes, I know... I veered off too, but that is because it was clear that I would never get my needs met by him and he had told me to go out and date if I felt like it, so I did. It really wasn't the answer either. In fact, it just made everything worse. This is total subject change, but more related to this thread about the sex addict's so-called "childhood trauma". When we speak of childhood trauma, I think it is clear that most of us think of something truly heinous happening, however trauma for a SA could mean anything from abject violent abuse, to being sent to one's room for talking back, or being chastised for not making straight A's, or failing a test, or not getting a spot on the varsity football team. I think its important to make this distinction because there are many, many sex addicts who were NOT the recipients of overt childhood abuse. However, because of some make up in their brain, it was PERCEIVED by the SA to be devastating, but repressed, perhaps. Some people are just born that way. They are brain damaged. Some people had horrific things happen to them and are not addicts. And yes, some addicts did suffer from horrific abuse,(its actually pretty common) but they would've been addicts regardless. So, all the therapy in the world isn't going to change a thing that's inherent in this person's brain. This is what is bizarre. Most of you know that I have a high functioning autistic teen-aged son. He PRESENTS with the identical traits that a sex addict does. Gaslighting, minimizing, justifying, BLAMING, BLAMING, and then more BLAMING. NOTHING is EVER his fault. His thoughts are rambling and nonsensical. It is rabbit hole thinking. he is perfect. we are clueless, retarded idiots, out to destroy him. (alright, the last part is pretty typical behavior for ANY 15-yr-old-- lol, but his is just very extreme.) Reality. Living with him, is hell on earth. Great news! He is going to a fantastic therapeutic boarding school on Monday. I call it the "ourlastchanceinhell" school. it really is and we are going to give it everything we have, no matter how painful. we have to. My point is that my son with autism has a damaged brain and so, I feel is the case with many, many SAs. I think that this may just be coming to light. And it is damaged beyond repair in some cases. I may poke fun of "psycho dude", but what I'm trying to say, is that he has a DIFFERENT BRAIN and unfortunately, he is not 15-- Steve is 66. I still envy the passion you feel for him, however. That's beautiful, Sharron. I long for that, myself. That is the hope that I have, in my heart and I have it for all of the beautiful women on here... because it is your right to have this. But for me, I want it to be reciprocated and not fake reciprocated. There is nothing worse than faked or one-dimensional passion. It makes a mockery out of our entire being as women who love with all of our hearts and souls. love, Lorraine I envy so much the passion that so many women have for their partners even if the partner is very sick.

I know this is going to sound very strange, coming from me…(in a kind of a cart before the horse way) but just last night, I point blank asked my husband if he had been with any other women and when? You see, believe or not… I had NEVER asked, and he had told me 4.5 years ago… that it was ONLY chat. (Quite frankly, I think its just as bad. Is he an addict? I have no idea. I really don’t. And his computer is locked up tighter than the Kremlin.)

Anyway, in answer to my question, he said, “one” and only one time. And it was some time in 2002. (he thinks), but I found his cyber sex chats with this woman four years LATER, that he (who is a massive geek) left open on MY lap top by accident. fake sex with a fake man. now a dead horse lying in the road. that’s my husband. He’s my prince who turned into a frog.

I wish I even cared. Oh, I’m hurt alright… but, I’m like a zombie just going through the motions of my life. (except for my kids). I’ve really been like this for years, I realize. I’m totally burnt out from my business and have lost my zest for life. And my children have sucked the very soul out of me. I’m tired. I can’t focus.(at least not on what I’m SUPPOSED to be focusing on) I don’t know the answer.

And yes, I know… I veered off too, but that is because it was clear that I would never get my needs met by him and he had told me to go out and date if I felt like it, so I did. It really wasn’t the answer either. In fact, it just made everything worse.

This is total subject change, but more related to this thread about the sex addict’s so-called “childhood trauma”. When we speak of childhood trauma, I think it is clear that most of us think of something truly heinous happening, however trauma for a SA could mean anything from abject violent abuse, to being sent to one’s room for talking back, or being chastised for not making straight A’s, or failing a test, or not getting a spot on the varsity football team. I think its important to make this distinction because there are many, many sex addicts who were NOT the recipients of overt childhood abuse. However, because of some make up in their brain, it was PERCEIVED by the SA to be devastating, but repressed, perhaps. Some people are just born that way. They are brain damaged. Some people had horrific things happen to them and are not addicts. And yes, some addicts did suffer from horrific abuse,(its actually pretty common) but they would’ve been addicts regardless. So, all the therapy in the world isn’t going to change a thing that’s inherent in this person’s brain.

This is what is bizarre. Most of you know that I have a high functioning autistic teen-aged son. He PRESENTS with the identical traits that a sex addict does. Gaslighting, minimizing, justifying, BLAMING, BLAMING, and then more BLAMING. NOTHING is EVER his fault. His thoughts are rambling and nonsensical. It is rabbit hole thinking. he is perfect. we are clueless, retarded idiots, out to destroy him. (alright, the last part is pretty typical behavior for ANY 15-yr-old– lol, but his is just very extreme.)

Reality. Living with him, is hell on earth. Great news! He is going to a fantastic therapeutic boarding school on Monday. I call it the “ourlastchanceinhell” school. it really is and we are going to give it everything we have, no matter how painful. we have to.

My point is that my son with autism has a damaged brain and so, I feel is the case with many, many SAs. I think that this may just be coming to light. And it is damaged beyond repair in some cases.

I may poke fun of “psycho dude”, but what I’m trying to say, is that he has a DIFFERENT BRAIN and unfortunately, he is not 15– Steve is 66.

I still envy the passion you feel for him, however. That’s beautiful, Sharron. I long for that, myself. That is the hope that I have, in my heart and I have it for all of the beautiful women on here… because it is your right to have this. But for me, I want it to be reciprocated and not fake reciprocated. There is nothing worse than faked or one-dimensional passion. It makes a mockery out of our entire being as women who love with all of our hearts and souls.

love,

Lorraine

]]> By: Pam http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/the-quick-fix-trap/#comment-8407 Pam Wed, 29 Dec 2010 01:11:15 +0000 http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/?p=1211#comment-8407 Dear All, re: custody / seperate living Thanks for words of wisdom, Diane and Flora. There are no easy answers in this re: young children in the home and custody. In the meantime I am trying to appreciate who I am, and wanted to share something that has worked for me as of late. For anyone stuck under the same roof for whatever the reason with an SA: SEPERATE BEDROOMS. Even if you sleep on the sofa. I am appreciative of my distance from SA right now, seperate rooms have been so helpful to me psychologically, spiritually. My stress level has been brought very very low because of this- Thank God! And I do not obsessively check or care or worry about him- at all. It is allowing me to heal. This is month 7 since D Day. My PTSD reactions are fewer. Living in seperate rooms has helped me define boundary, that healthy living argmts for me are a must. My Sa is aware as well. Life is not continuing on the norm since his return from Brazil early Nov. Even if I can't afford to move out, or don't think it best for custody issues right now- wifey is sleepin solo, and lovin it that way. Funny, Joanne's words almost always ring true. We can only set boundaries for ourselves. When I put my healthy self first, things fall into place. Including his attitude, eventually. He may rant and rave at first. so what. sticking to it is the best medicine ever. If our SA's act out and are not on the program (mine clearly was not, still isn't) a safe haven within our homes can perhaps be created on a temporary basis. While not ideal, if anyone is like me without family in immediate area, not enough money to support 2 places, young children whom you don't want SA being alone with for whatever reason, then perhaps creating a safe and seperate place within ourselves and roof's is a good temporary solution. Honestly I think I could live seperate under same roof for the next 6mos to a year. That's more than enough time for me to decompress and make a solid plan. It also more than enough time for SA to make better choices for himself without me being involved in any so-called recovery. and I do mean so called. he's on his own. :) he's a big kid now, pull ups and all. Dear All,
re: custody / seperate living

Thanks for words of wisdom, Diane and Flora. There are no easy answers in this re: young children in the home and custody. In the meantime I am trying to appreciate who I am, and wanted to share something that has worked for me as of late. For anyone stuck under the same roof for whatever the reason with an SA: SEPERATE BEDROOMS. Even if you sleep on the sofa. I am appreciative of my distance from SA right now, seperate rooms have been so helpful to me psychologically, spiritually. My stress level has been brought very very low because of this- Thank God! And I do not obsessively check or care or worry about him- at all. It is allowing me to heal. This is month 7 since D Day. My PTSD reactions are fewer. Living in seperate rooms has helped me define boundary, that healthy living argmts for me are a must. My Sa is aware as well. Life is not continuing on the norm since his return from Brazil early Nov. Even if I can’t afford to move out, or don’t think it best for custody issues right now- wifey is sleepin solo, and lovin it that way. Funny, Joanne’s words almost always ring true. We can only set boundaries for ourselves. When I put my healthy self first, things fall into place. Including his attitude, eventually. He may rant and rave at first. so what. sticking to it is the best medicine ever. If our SA’s act out and are not on the program (mine clearly was not, still isn’t) a safe haven within our homes can perhaps be created on a temporary basis. While not ideal, if anyone is like me without family in immediate area, not enough money to support 2 places, young children whom you don’t want SA being alone with for whatever reason, then perhaps creating a safe and seperate place within ourselves and roof’s is a good temporary solution. Honestly I think I could live seperate under same roof for the next 6mos to a year. That’s more than enough time for me to decompress and make a solid plan. It also more than enough time for SA to make better choices for himself without me being involved in any so-called recovery. and I do mean so called. he’s on his own. :) he’s a big kid now, pull ups and all.

]]> By: JoAnn http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/the-quick-fix-trap/#comment-8406 JoAnn Wed, 29 Dec 2010 00:59:36 +0000 http://marriedtoasexaddict.com/?p=1211#comment-8406 Thanks Sharron for accepting all of my information with the intent that it was given--with love. Your question for your spouse during your attempts at this regression therapy, “<em>can you remember the most unhappy portion of your childhood at age 10?</em>” is not really specific or focused enough. Regression usually requires hours or weeks of 'background' work, such as having them recall certain specific incidents (usually happy), placing themselves back in time and them being able to describe, with great detail, where they are and what it looks like, etc. For someone to be able to regress or to allow themselves to enter a suggestive state of mind requires a specific type of personality, complete trust and a whole lot of luck and expertise. At the end of each of my group therapy sessions I would ask for volunteers who would like to engage in either 1. a fun exercise involving post hypnotic suggestion or 2. a 'blast from the past' where they would re-live something from their childhood. Several things were necessary for this exercise to be successful. 1. They had to trust me completely (this is NEVER the case with a Sex Addict) 2. They had to have a very suggestive personality (Again, not the case considering the problematic issues that a Sex Addict has) 3. They had to be open emotionally and be able to allow themselves to be directed toward a goal (again, Sex Addicts are very closed and distrustful). 4. The were recalling happy events (as opposed to encouraging a Sex Addict to recall painful, traumatic events that they have buried all of their lives). I think trying to direct or engage a Sex Addict into a suggestive state of mind is an exercise in futility. Their mindset is totally contrary to the conditions necessary for it to be successful. And, as I said, it's not good for you. Thanks Sharron for accepting all of my information with the intent that it was given–with love. Your question for your spouse during your attempts at this regression therapy, “can you remember the most unhappy portion of your childhood at age 10?” is not really specific or focused enough. Regression usually requires hours or weeks of ‘background’ work, such as having them recall certain specific incidents (usually happy), placing themselves back in time and them being able to describe, with great detail, where they are and what it looks like, etc.

For someone to be able to regress or to allow themselves to enter a suggestive state of mind requires a specific type of personality, complete trust and a whole lot of luck and expertise.

At the end of each of my group therapy sessions I would ask for volunteers who would like to engage in either 1. a fun exercise involving post hypnotic suggestion or 2. a ‘blast from the past’ where they would re-live something from their childhood.

Several things were necessary for this exercise to be successful. 1. They had to trust me completely (this is NEVER the case with a Sex Addict) 2. They had to have a very suggestive personality (Again, not the case considering the problematic issues that a Sex Addict has) 3. They had to be open emotionally and be able to allow themselves to be directed toward a goal (again, Sex Addicts are very closed and distrustful). 4. The were recalling happy events (as opposed to encouraging a Sex Addict to recall painful, traumatic events that they have buried all of their lives).

I think trying to direct or engage a Sex Addict into a suggestive state of mind is an exercise in futility. Their mindset is totally contrary to the conditions necessary for it to be successful.

And, as I said, it’s not good for you.

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