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What Is It Like To Have Sex With A Sex Addict?

af sex lg 35008929 150x200 What Is It Like To Have Sex With A Sex Addict?I bet most people would think that having sex with a Sex Addict must be one step short of Paradise. I mean, after all, they are the experts–right?

Wrong!

Sex Addicts could be categorized as Sexual cripples. Their ability to become aroused is based on skewed fantasies and unrealistic expectations. Put them in bed with a committed, loving partner and they really don’t know what to do.

Intimacy frightens them and pleasing someone else is out of their realm of thinking except when it fulfills their fantasies of being the greatest lover in the world–and only if you manage to be satisfied in the way that they want and within their predetermined period of time, which oddly is supposed to coincide exactly with their orgasm. Sex Addicts are completely unrealistic and narcissistic in the bedroom. Their own pleasure is their only focus.

Early in a relationship a Sex Addict’s passion can be mistaken for love and intimacy, but as the relationship grows and becomes more mature and intimate, the Sex Addict pulls away and ignores or even rejects their spouse or partner for their fantasy world and fantasy partners. Reality just doesn’t appeal to them when it comes to sex.

Sexuality and intimacy are two of the most difficult areas to deal with when living with a recovering Sex Addict. They have spent a lifetime conditioning themselves to respond to the wrong stimuli. Learning healthy sex will take the rest of their lives.

The worst lies are the lies we tell ourselves. ~ Richard Bach

84 comments to What Is It Like To Have Sex With A Sex Addict?

  • Samantha

    For my experience, this is very true. For so long, before I discovered what was really going on, I thought that I was at fault. I thought that I wasn’t attractive enough or that perhaps I had unrealistic expectations about our sex life. Now, I just feel cheated out of a healthy sex life and a healthy relationship. I’m also angry that I was manipulated to doubt myself for so long. Sex w/ a sex addict isn’t sexy.

  • rebecca

    I have been married to a sex addict for 10 yrs, and I didn’t understand why he was so different in bed for years. For one I thought he had the lowest sex drive on the planet, and when we did do something, there was no passion at all, no kissing, no pleasing me, he wanted to do the same thing with me as he did with the prostitutes. I would ask him why don’t you make love to me instead of this everytime and he would blame me that we havent been in a good place.

    I discovered 5 years after marrying him that he had led a double life the whole time. I’m very attractive and had never been with someone that didnt want me back. I was always the apple of whoever my boyfriend was at the time’s eye. It was shattering to my self esteem, and he promised he stopped but nothing seeemed to change between us, he was still distant, and not into me sexually. We turned to drugs and became very lonely. Things still didnt seem right and I didnt know why, and he denied everything repeatedly. We were isolated because of our now drug addiction and it seemed we were together alot, but he still found time, he would work at the office until late at night, I thought he was a workaholic but he was really up there cheating with prostitutes. Now I know why I was one of the only women married to a woraholic broke lawyer. I have been off drugs for two years and married 10 and I just discovered an email account with thousands of emails and membeships and ads etc. that shows my husband never stopped, he has been nonstop the whole time, I am so upset, I wrote him letter after lettter pouring my heart out begging for affection and it did not seem to phase him. I saw a letter I had written 2 years ago and I could had written it today, nothing has changed. We are so broke because of his addiction that I dont even have the funds to leave. I told him the last time I caught him, to please love me enough to let me go, do not keep me around if you cant be good, and he was crying so hard begging me to stay saying he will bev good, I started SA meeting with him and he would walk around proudly with his DEsire chip in his pocket ALL ALONG CHEATING DAILY. My question is why keep me around? Wouldnt it be easier to not hide it? What role do i play? He doesnt even come to me for sex, I feel like a fricken house cat!n If you love someone you let them go so the can find someone that will be good to them. You dont rob someone of 10 years
    He even cheated on my bday, anniversary, his birthday, valentines Christmas if you can believe that, he held dinner up at my moms for hours while he was supposedly putting something together for my son bavk at the house.

  • Louise

    Rebecca, I feel for you. I just found out my husband of 7 years has been living a double life. He has an out pouring of tears and has begun the SA program but I am so fearful that nothing will change.

  • Seren

    Life shouldn’t/doesn’t have to be that hard. Love shouldn’t/doesn’t have to hurt. Feel for you both. x

  • rebecca

    Thank you Louis and Seren. Loise, after so much heartache I can tell you some signs I’ve learned along the way that will tell you if he is on the right track, because his words alone are not enough, Sex Addicts word is not very valuable.

    1. Does he go into detail about what he did or is he vague? SA will be vague and not fill you in if he wants to still do it. Has he showed you his secret email or told you about memberships or websites he goes on?
    Does he get angry when talking about it?

    My husband slipped and said “I can’t believe I’m so stupid and didn’t erase those emails”, not “I should have never done it”. He was never upset at what he did, he only felt bad that he got caught, therefore causing me pain.

    Does he get nervous when you unexpectedly start browsing on his computer?

    Can you check phone records?

    Has your sex life changed? That’s one thing I never understood, is because it didnt matter if he was cheating or not, nothing changed between us sexually, he didnt want me anymore (even after giving up a very busy secret sex life) than he ever did. The reason is because it never stopoed.

    SA are total cons and are very skilled at acting so be careful. You cannot go by what they say, and the more you catch them the smarter they get.

  • Bambi

    Hi all… I hope my comments are not too graphic, but am wondering if you all had similar experience. When my husband was caught with prostitutes, he told me it was because he wanted oral sex, and that I just never seemed interested, so he used their services. When I do try to give him what he claims he wants…it does not go well. It takes him FOREVER, he can’t finish. and either pushes me aside to finish himself, or wants straight sex (what he claims he wants now) I’ve asked him before…”thought that’s what you wanted”? “Whats the problem”? I was actually told that I wasn’t doing it right! Maybe if it didn’t take him an hour to get excited, I wouldn’t feel like I had to change positions, get a drink, or something! My bet is that it didn’t take that long for his prostitutes to get him off!!! When I found out about his activities last year, I decided to be different. At first,I told him that I was leaving. He talked me into staying. So I tried a new approach to saving my marriage… I told him I would do anything he wanted(sexually) My girlfriend thought I had lost my mind, and was gonna help me find it!!! Our sex was way different. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t me he was in bed with. He told me after wards that if he could do that with me every day, there would never be another problem, that it was like he fell in love with me all over again. Sex has been slowly declining. I tried to be “nice” a few weeks ago, and it ended with him finishing himself off. He hasn’t been interested since. I am slowly getting the big picture here, and am making arrangements for my future. I am trying to remain in my home for as long as I need, to get to where I need to be. I guess nothing you say, or do really makes them happy. I also was wondering if any of you have had skewed sexual thought of your own, since finding out about your husbands activities? My therapist threw that one on the table for me to now think about! Developing my own “sexual weird”. Like I don’t have enough “weird” in my life!!! I hadn’t much thought of that, I guess. And now, I am scared to death!!! I don’t think I want ANYTHING to do with men again. I am going to be so busy trying to get my life back, go to school at 52 years of age, learn how to take care of myself. As he has always taken very good care of me, just not my heart. These men don’t have a heart. Mine recently told me that he never gets depressed. Just anxious. Another attempt at getting my sympathy & help, because he is now court ordered to get help. So, they don’t have a conscience. These guys know they are hurting you, and they don’t care. Until they are caught. Tired of trying to “figure him out”. There is no figuring out. I only believe “getting out” at this point.

  • Lorraine

    Wow! and more wow!!!

    First of all to Jennifer. I truly DO think that your husband is most likely in the 5%, so please keep the faith.

    For Bambi and Rebecca, I can’t say just how much I admire the two of you!!! And no offense was taken at all, R! I had everything I could do to stop myself from saying. “Hey just dump the f—d up losers and RUN!” I had a strong feeling that you were heading in the directions that you are and it sure makes sense to me! They have each been given more than enough chances to “reform,” “recover — whatever.” If they haven’t gotten it yet, they never will. I just love it when they try to pin the problems in the marriage on you. Or, they’ll apologize for something which is not that big a deal and leave the BIG problem unaccounted for. Very typical. Don’t buy into their crap.

    Unfortunately, they’ll most likely find another patsy to prey on. But, not your problem.

    As for sex— Well, this is interesting, but my SA lover ALWAYS finished himself off which made me wonder after a time, if that was the ONLY way he could finish with ANYONE!!! This is giving rise to yet another theory– or maybe its not even a theory. These are just massively unhealthy people, so it just spills over into every area of their lives. Sex is supposed to be with TWO people and again– Its all about him, isn’t it? It doesn’t matter what you do, you’re f–ked, metaphorically that is. Its not you. Believe me. I hope and pray that after a time, you’ll find out for yourselves– in time.

    Please know that there ARE many wonderful, truly loving men out there. Yes, everyone has some faults and areas of relative weakness, but any man who doesn’t hold your heart in its highest esteem is a loser. Now, you know what to look for. And I can see now, if you are really looking closely, there are signs, even in the beginning, when they are “sweeping” you off your feet — way too fast. Actually, that right there, is a huge red flag!

    There’s a woman, Rori Raye, who has written some self help books, etc. online and you can subscribe to her emails. Here’s a link

    http://www.HaveTheRelationshipYouWant.com/ModernSiren

    I think most of what she says makes a lot of sense, especially if a woman has some self-esteem issues, which lets face it, we all have to some extent or another. She gives insightful tools to help a woman grow stronger on the inside so that she may be soft and vulnerable on the outside. Some of what she says may seem counter-intuitive at first, but will actually give a woman more power over her life and relationships.

    This is not to say, that you were pushing your SA husband’s into their own pathology and ultimate demise of your unions. Its just that even in the best of circumstances, relationships are not all that easy and you ladies have gone through something horrendous—aka as the notorious “baggage”. ugh.

    She’ll help you get some new lovely, sleek, light-weight, expandable (don’t you love that?);) luggage, complete with all sorts of special, clever compartments, inside and out for your personal belongings and multi-directional wheels too! This way, you won’t have to carry that heavy burden into your new lives and can arrive at your new destinations with everything well-organized and have plenty of room to grow.

    Alright, back to work!!!

    Love to all.

    L

  • Seren

    You may as well be a plank of wood when having sex with these men. They don’t know how to connect (although mine did on approx 2/3 occasions but that was over a 3 year period). It’s not you they’re having sex with. They’re having sex with themselves and when they play the part of “fantastic lover” in the very mechanical sense you still may as well be a plank of wood that he is desperately trying to sculpt into something meaningful – and he’s not a sculptor so how can the wood ever become anything meaningful to him. Just an analogy that came to me when giving this topic some thought.

  • rebecca

    You know Lorraine, my husband always finished himself off also. He would pull out and then do himself. Weird! He told me it stems from being single and masturbating as a way to pleasure himself when he didn’t have anyone, whatever, he’s so full of it!

    He really made me angry tonight, one thing I love as foreplay is a masssage, I’m not talking about an hour (although it would be nice)I am just saying that is a real treat to me. Anyway I got outta the bath, and my husband is in the “honey moon phase” because he just got caught cheating nonstop (he thinks I forgave him once again but really I’m strategically planning my departure) and anyway we were supposed to have sex (the only time I get real attention is shortly after catching him) and I asked him if he would put lotion on me, and he said OK but just a little one I’m tired so I layed out a towel and put on soft music and he was very rushed (you have to understand he has been promising me a massage for years and I never got it), I asked him “don’t forget my feet” I’m not Rebecca. Then when he came up to my arms I whispered for him to do my hands and he freaks out and starts raising his voice saying he’s tired and I asked him “why is it always a chore when you do anything for me?, you should enjoy touching me” and then I went on to say “you would think after getting caught being a serial cheater that you would not mind going out of your way, even if you didnt feel like it”.

    Then he wanted to “stick it in” and I said no just leave, (he sleeps upstairs). so I go to the bottom of the stairs and I’m crying and I told him that my feelings are hurt and his response was “Rebecca you love controversary, you’re a drama queen, your feelings are not hurt, stop faking”

    One of the ads my husband had out on “backpage” when I caught him was “SENSUAL MASSAGE FOR WOMEN” and it had been renewed 6 times.

    So who wouldn’t be hurt? All the women he has been with and he could not go out of his way to make me feel good, but like I said before, I used to get REALLY UPSET at this behavior, now I LOVE it, because he has a big surprise coming and this time I won’t be the one feeling bad (well I will try not to, lol). No we are getting money soon on a case I worked very hard on for years and I am TAKING WITHOUT ASKING enough to get my new life started. Yippeee

  • rebecca

    Oh you know what his argument was, “Rebecca you never look at what I do, I have given you 20 massages” and I said “when? Are you talking about over our 10 yr marriage?” and he said Yes, I almost fell over laughing, excuse me but is that alot 20 massages over a 10 year period? I honestly can only remember maybe 3 in the 10 years I have been married, but he can put out ads to give other women massages. Oh and trust me that is one of the innocent ads, there are 5 more wanting to be a sugar daddy, paying someone for sex etc.

  • rebecca

    I wish I had a picture of the look on his face when he comes home to an empty house and almost empty bank account. I would throw darts at it, no really I’m just pissed right now, but I might go buy darts anyway and just throw him at his picture with his penis being the bulls eye, to make me feel better. I have never met such a cold hearted snake! My only comfort is that I have made up my mind to leave.

  • Evelyn

    I’m so glad to have found this article. I’ve been sweeping the internet trying to find information from wives who have stayed with their SA husbands about their sex lives through recovery. Does anyone know where I can find more information like this? Having sex with a wood plank really strikes a chord…also the husband trying to make himself feel like the world’s greatest lover. How frustrating to try to have satisfying sex with your husband when he really is just there to stroke his ego.

  • Evelyn

    I just noticed that this article has the most views on this site. Other SA spouses are looking for these answers. Maybe I should start a blog or something where we can share with eachother.

  • This is a blog where we can share with each other.

  • Ann

    thank God someone told me about this site. I did not understand what was happening. He always finishes himself in the bathroom. He never touches me. He never tries to please me. He is terrified of intimacy and cold to my heart and my needs.I tried pleasing him. He wanted kinky stuff like for me to spank him and do stuff to his butt. I couldn’t. I just couldn’t. He told me he wanted to just cuddle, cause sex was dessert but he could do without it.But he would lie on his back, close his eyes, and cover his face with his arm. I tried to hold him. I wrapped myself around him; but he never responded. He would lie there and talk about himself. For hours! The stuff was twisted. It was scary.
    He cheats and has phone sex by MB’ing while talking to women who don’t know(caught him). He watches porn on the net. He is cold to his young son, and says he wishes the kid had not been born. And he is creepy around little girls like his granddaughters(previous marriage). I don’t know what to do.

    [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.

  • Ellen

    It’s very interesting to see that I’m not alone here. Recovery books for couples don’t cover this subject much, except to guide women to stop doing things sexually with their addict husbands that makes them uncomfortable.

    I’ve read some on sexual anorexia, but I’m not sure that what you ladies are talking about and what I have experienced with my husband is anorexia.

    My husband has been in recovery for 2 years now and is doing great. As our sex is very mechanical and rather boring, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about when we were dating.

    Our first encounters were really intense. I loved feeling that desired. After we had sex, he lost interest in me sexually for the most part. He’s never kissed me or expressed passion for me the same way. I’m amazed at what I endured in our marriage before recovery trying to get that passion back.

    What still hurts is that I know when we first met, he was acting out. After he wasn’t interested in me sexually anymore, he acted out with soo many. He gave the passion and desire that I so desperately wanted to prostitutes and people he could drum up on the internet. Painful.

    Yes, I recognize my part here. I know I have much more to do in my own recovery.

  • C

    Not my experience. My husband has always been a good and attentive lover to me. There were definite periods where he avoided sex, but that has been over ten years ago. When we have sex (which is usually about 2 times a week–sometimes more sometimes less) it’s really fun and feels healthy. We kiss a lot, he doesn’t pressure, it’s good.

    There are times when it’s “fast food” sex: when we both just do it quickly without a lot of romance, but I’m never forgotten. But frequently it’s romantic and intimate.

    The problem is I can’t trust my own perceptions. What if all this that feels right and good is totally f-ed up? I’ve asked my husband and he said that all of his encounters outside of our relationship made him feel humiliated and ashamed and sick after, but sex with me doesn’t make him feel that way. Actually, he clarified and said sex with me *since we got married* doesn’t feel wrong…before we got married he sometimes felt bad after.
    –C

  • J

    It’s not just for men. My wife has just informed me that for the last year and a half she has been (aggressively) feeding her addiction. Says she still loves me more than anyone she has ever known, but I can’t seem to believe it’s true. She has been in counseling for several months, and says she has now stopped (I found out 3 days ago) but I don’t know if A. I should believe her, and B. If I should hang around long enough to see if I get hurt again. She knew how devastated I was when my first wife was unfaithful and promised it would never happen with her. Is there any home in believing her going forward?

  • BAMBI

    Dear “not just for men”…Sorry to hear of your problems with your wife. I feel for you. I met my husband after getting out of an extremely abusive marriage. Not just cheating with other women, but physically abusive as well. My husband knew all about my past, my devastation, trust issues with men, how important it was for me to be able to trust again…and yet…here we are. I wish I knew what to say to you , to make things better. I’ve tried trusting, believing, whatever, but haven’t had much success, OBVIOUSLY! I do think that they really believe the things they say to you, trying their best to make you believe, trust, feel better, whatever. I can’t speak for your wife, but I know now, that my husband has no conscience, and it is B.S. when he attempts telling me how bad he felt when he was doing the things he did. I was able to track the dates on the bank statements when he was visiting the spas & hookers. On those days, he would come home from work all happy & full of himself, thinking he had gotten away with it. Then, when I found out, and added everything up, he tried to tell me how bad he felt on those days. Again…more lies. He has also told me more recently, that he just did it, because he thought he could “get away with it”. In my book, that’s even worse (if that is even the truth)! How long have you been married? Any children? Wish I knew what to say to you to make things better, but I got nothin. xoxox

  • Dear J, I’m so sorry about your wife, and yes, there are women who are Sex Addicts also, and everything that I have written here about Sex Addiction has no gender. I’m glad that she is in counseling, that’s a start, but being able to overcome the compulsion to act out is not something that happens in just a few months. Many of the Sex Addicts in my husbands 12 step groups have tried for decades to stop and cannot.

    I hope that you seek counseling. Co dependent behavior usually stems from a lack of self esteem and an inability to set healthy boundaries and consequences. Once you work out those issues and regain your self confidence you will be able to stand up to your wife and command the respect that you deserve.

    Please stay with us and keep us posted as to how things are going. We are here to help if only with words of support. Be strong.

  • kat

    I just found out my husband is a sex addict two days ago. We have been married for 6 months. He’s only 27 and I’m 26. I am absolutely devastated. He promises to do everything in his power to be a better person and ‘make things right again.’ We have already made an appointment with a therapist, but I don’t know how to trust him. Is there clues/ things I should be aware of to know if things are going well or not? I told him if he continued/ did it ever again I would leave him. I have ‘forgiven’ him, and I told him we can only be friends at this point and start over, because anything more quite frankly repulses me. And I have occasional images in my head of him and these other women, and is he ‘where he says he is’ and etc. What is the best way to deal with it? I know he’s a good man underneath it all. Other then this, he had been an amazing, loving, and doting husband, but I couldn’t help but think maybe it was the shame. I’m just angry that he dragged me into this. I know for a fact I don’t deserve this, I’m young, I have my whole life ahead of me. I know it is his battle, and I am willing to be there for him.

  • J

    I’m a week into the admission from my wife. Even though I suspected for several months, I never confronted the issue. She through counseling finally came to terms with telling me. What I can tell you is you can’t fix him. You can’t control his recovery, or monitor if he stays in and follows his program. He will need to be in program. As bad as all this is for me, I did come to terms with the fact that I am co-dependent and addicted as well. Addicts seek out people who will enable their behavior. No, this isn’t your fault. No there is nothing you could have done to prevent this. Yes he probably does love you. The point is that you need to seek your own therapy. People are never cured from addictions, they just learn to cope with them. You’re husband may love you with all his heart, but it won’t be enough to stop the behavior. What they do isn’t about love, it’s about feeding the addictive personality. The problem with that for a co-dependent such as myself, is that sex is the ultimate expression of love. We have directly opposing definitions of what sex means. Adding the betrayal trauma to a co-dependent is like a bomb going off in the brain. It becomes chemical and you can’t fix it alone. I’ll pray for you. I know you’re hurting. You need to see a counselor to understand what is right for YOU moving forward. Set your boundaries and accept if you can live with a person in addiction. Once you’re both healthy mentally, you made find your relationship is better than it ever was. But you need to be prepared to find the things that drew you together, were based on feeding patterns of disorder. I truly wish you the best of luck.

    God Bless

  • Lorraine

    J, forgive me, but what you just said is the very thing I don’t get regarding so-called “co-dependence”. A person discovers that his partner/spouse is conducting a secret life and then “realizes” that he/she must be part of the “problem” because of her/his “co-dependence/co-addiction.”

    Here is what you wrote:

    “The problem with that for a co-dependent such as myself, is that sex is the ultimate expression of love.”

    Sex IS the ultimate expression of love between two partners, so how does this make you an “enabler” or a “co-dependent” (as the word implies, something very unhealthy and in need of “fixing.”) The fact that she is struggling with true intimacy does not mean that you are too!

    And what is it that you think you are co-addicted to, anyway? Her? I don’t call that an addiction. I call that love and it is the most normal and beautiful thing that God ever created. The fact that you are in love and intensely desire your partner does not make you a “co-addict.” or a co anything! You were just there and have had something devastating dumped into your lap. I also don’t think that it means that your wife doesn’t love you, but she has some other needs outside of her love that have gone awry. (an understatement)

    I am also not saying that you do or don’t need some help,(I mean, who doesn’t, for none of us are perfect and you will need help to cope with the devastation) but you did NOT unwittingly enable your partner and no one on here did! Your SA partner would’ve behaved the same, no matter who was their partner! You may have been subconsciously targeted by the SA because of an attractive personality type, but again, you are who you are and probably a very nice person! I do not see at all, that you were attracted to someone “pathological” either. Most SAs are remarkably adept at compartmentalizing and also disassociating. So, they may not have exhibited the clear signs. The person you live with and came to love is NOT necessarily anything like the SA addict who is acting out. I realized this when I read my ex-lover’s partner’s blog. In therapy, she saw a person she did not recognize at times.

    I guess I just feel bad when the SAs partners in addition to having to live through the trauma are also beating themselves up, needlessly.

  • J

    Loraine
    No forgiveness required. First I should clarify that I in no way consider myself a subject matter expert in this area. I’ve tried to come up to speed on the subject because it has now become part of my life. I certainly never intended to imply that the spouse is the problem. They aren’t. I also agree that sex IS the ultimate expression of love. The goal in bringing a sex addict through recovery is to realize that. To allow them to realize and accept, that sex as a coping mechanism destroys their ability to have the intimate connection with their mate. But it’s the intimacy they find so difficult. I also don’t mean to profess that ALL sex addicts are married to co-dependents, or people with underlying personality disorders. Betrayal takes time to heal, but has more impact on a co-dependent. As I said, sex is the ultimate expression of love, but co-dependents gage there ability to satisfy their spouse as a measure of acceptance and worth. When betrayal occurs, that causes an additional layer of devastation. My underlying message, and I apologize if it wasn’t clear, was that an affected spouse should seek their own professional help in coping with this. There is nothing she could have done to prevent this. Most people don’t take the time to read about personality disorders or addictions until they are directly affected by them. Learning about the disease, and evaluating your own personality, will help in recovering. Maybe you find that you are indeed a healthy well adjusted loving person, but it’s not a bad idea to do a little self audit. And thanks, I really am a nice guy. Working on being a nicer guy to myself and not use others opinions of me to validate my worth.

  • Lorraine

    Hi J,

    i wasn’t implying that it was your fault, at ALL but simply that it seems to be the prevailing opinion by the so-called EXPERTS that the sex addict’s spouse is also part of the equation in a shared pathology. So, this on top of the most traumatic discovery (I think worse than a death) of their life, they are further burdened with the idea that they too, are sick. Of course, they might be, but I don’t think its a forgone conclusion.

    My situation is that I am married (for you and any other newbies here) and a few years ago, my husband had left some on-line cyber affairs open on my lap top, by “accident”. While not a sex addict, per se.. Of course, I was very upset…loooooong story, but I have a wonderful therapist. The upshot was that we ended up having a more openish marriage (another story, but we are wonderful friends and no matter what, always will be) and I ended up having an affair with a sex addict who I became very attached to over time. I knew that it wasn’t a healthy situation, but at the time, I guess I just rationalized it away, without realizing fully, how deeply I was getting myself involved. It also gave me a unique perspective that most of the women don’t have here. I was there, during his acting out and trust me, for everyone here, whatever you are imagining, (in your own situations) it really isn’t that great. And it is definitely NOT about sex and definitely NOT about love. It is simply a way for them to disseminate their drug. I know that it is difficult to comprehend but you must try to. If they could get the same high from eating bananas, then they would be a banana addict.

    If anything, I AM a co-addict, well anyway, I WAS addicted to him – for sure. Chemistry for days and days! powerful stuff. After I fully realized what was really going on with him,(so many lies to me and worse as I fully realized that I was nothing more than a prop to him!) I tried (with very poor results) to “help” him :( and then I realized that the ONLY way he stood ANY chance for recovery, was for his world to come crashing down to the ground, so I went to his partner with the truth. (incognito via email) Ugly, ugly stuff and normally not me at all!!!!!! Although, I think I did the right (there is no right, however) thing, a part of me that still wonders. I believe though, that since he often played unsafely and that I saw his disease progress, more and more, eventually something really really bad was coming down the pike.

    I am not an expert either, by any means. However, based on my current knowledge and everything I’ve read and heard and my own experience, it just doesn’t make sense to brand ALL partners as co-addicts, etc. And I think it makes the whole recovery process that much more difficult and painful for the casualty (as Joann likes to call the partner) of the SA’s addiction.

    I think that you’re a very courageous and beautiful man for opening up as you have. Your wife is a very lucky woman because obviously, she has in you a very loving partner.

    Much Strength,

    L

  • Lorraine

    I just want to add that if a partner knows of their partner’s sex addiction and then does everything in their power to enable the partner’s addiction, out of FEAR of losing them, or just fear, period, including sacrificing their own principals, and ignoring their own needs, then yes, THAT is a co-addict. But, you just found out and YES, therapy for the partner is essential!!!

    And of course, we all want to satisfy our partners and don’t we all have some level of insecurity and wonder if we measure up? I have never known of or met anyone who doesn’t have some doubts somewhere in their psyche. (except for maybe James Bond, but he’s a fictional character) I think that is all perfectly normal and yes, we can all work on making ourselves more autonomous, and better individuals through therapy, introspection and self-discovery. I also do not see anything wrong with also taking and needing and wanting. We need other people. It would also be perfectly normal for you to think that maybe she went looking for others because you couldn’t meet her needs. Also, not true. I can guarantee you that her lovers are not the Casanovas that you are imagining. The truth is that NO one can meet her needs; her needs are unmeetable and therefore comes the addiction. It is a vast well out of which there is no escape without a lot of help.

    If you have a pet like a cat or a dog. Look to how they act. I’m not joking. That is what normal love looks like, without all of the crap.

    I hope that helps!

    xo,

    L

  • H

    J

    I am so happy to hear a MAN who is in the same place as I am with their wife. I found out about my wife addiction a month ago and it has been a a roller coaster ride of emotions talks and discovery. I have been actively seeking answers online and we both went into therapy to discover the reasons.

    Actually, my wife has been in therapy for a number of years because of bi-polar syndrome. Actually it is called borderline Bi polar since she is highly functional and intelligent and has a great career and job.

    I am not sure of the reasons for your wife and why she has done what she did, I just found this blog but my situation was I am married to an SLA(Sex and Love addiction) addict according to my therapist.

    Because of my wife condition I did hear from my therapist that SLA is a very common addition with people who suffer from this incurable and very difficult disease.

    J I would be very curious to hear your situation and how you are dealing with it since the blogs here that I have just read are mostly just women.

  • J

    H
    I actually found out a few years ago that my wife suffers from a Food Addiction. Also very common with SA’s. I went through an almost identical situation with my first wife (bi-polar not FA). I didn’t seek therapy and handled her betrayals on my own. BIG MISTAKE. I actually suspected this around the summer of last year. I got this feeling of Deja Vu. I knew I had been here before. I started weekly inspections of our laundry, and pretty much confirmed what I had suspected. At that point I just let myself believe that maybe it was something else. I didn’t want to ask the question, because I really didn’t want the answer. I tried to justify that maybe it wasn’t that bad. After all if you search Craigs List there are thousands of couples who include this as part of the lifestyle. She was just diagnosed as an SA about 2 months ago. I am actually on a month long business trip out of the country. I talked to her when I first arrived, and she told me she just saw a specialist referred to her by her counselor. She said he finally unlocked the doors to the demons in her life. She said he wanted me to come in after I returned, and meet with her, her counselor and him. She said he wanted to talk about her issues in a safe environment. I knew exactly what was coming. We use a Skype video to call, so after a week I finally asked her if the big disclosure was that she had been unfaithful. She broke down and gushed what was going on. Of course I was crushed. As the days went on I was angry, sad, angry, hurt, and now have read enough about the disease to come to terms. All that in a hotel room 7000 miles away from her. The nights are the worst. All the things I didn’t get help with from my first marriage infidelity came over me as huge crushing waves of emotion. I still had/have to function during the day so I go into work mode and power through. The nights can really turn into a dark place.

    I understand enough to know it’s not about love. It’s still hard. I still haven’t been in the same room as her since the announcement, but we talk at length on the phone. It’s still really lonely, but finding this website helps. I don’t know what I can say other than the only way I deal is to let go of my pride. I learned the first time around that at these juncture your ego is not your friend. Yes it’s betrayal, yes it’s a terrible tragic thing, but I have to come to terms with the fact that it was just sex. If she didn’t love me she would have just left. I do believe that. Moving forward though I know I need to protect myself. I will be there for her. I will give her a second chance, to work her program and find peace from the terrible things in her past that resulted in this tragically twisted soul. I love her. I won’t however continue to stay in our relationship if she can’t gain control. As I said. Everyone deserves a second chance. Now that she knows what she’s dealing with, it’s really up to her to do the work. I won’t hate her if she fails. I will however understand that the best thing for me is to move on. I need someone who I can trust. I t will take a long time, but I will heal. Through therapy, God, and random acts of kindness, life will go on. God has a plan for me. I know it’s his plan that I’m happy. I’ll use that as my light when the nights get so dark, and my soul cries for someone to lift me up. People will always disappoint you. You will even disappoint yourself. God is unfailing. I hope you’re doing well. It will get better.

  • J

    Lorraine
    Thanks for the kind words. A little affirmation goes a long way right now.

  • Lorraine

    uhhh… She dropped the D-bomb from 7,000 miles away when you had just arrived on a business trip for a month???

    Good God!!!

    Is anyone else as flabbergasted as I am?

    I’m sorry, but that is just downright cruel. But, hence lies the problem.

    Look, please read (if you haven’t already) about narcissism. It is tough to call it “love” because narcs do not understand the concept.(and all sex addicts are narcissists, to some extent or other) They don’t love themselves and they don’t understand what it actually means to love another person either. They have learned to fabricate a facsimile of what they “think” its supposed to mean. But they don’t really feel it, in a healthy or normal way and they have a lot of trouble empathizing. If you haven’t discovered Sam Vaknin, just google him. He’s a narc and writes very articulately and insightfully about the disorder and all of its manifestations. Some people (and I may be one of them) are attracted to narcissists. We get sucked in by their beauty and charm. That is how they get what they are seeking, but then… Oftentimes, narcs and people who are attracted to them, had one or both parents who were also narcs. For me, I realize now, to be extra vigilant!

    And yes, co-morbid addictions and other disorders are commonplace. And she most likely suffered some kind of severe abuse as a child.

    Wow! You’ve had a very tough go of it. And it is very admirable to stand by her and give her another chance. I think that takes a very strong person.

    Don’t know if you noticed, but Joann has a blog here posted by another man for you and H to connect with?

    http://anonyhandle.wordpress.com/

    Best,

    L

  • J

    Lorraine
    The word cruel has been redefined for me many times. Telling me she was a sex addict was enough. Telling me she had been aggressively feeding her addiction could have been re-phrased. I really think she wanted to wait, but wasn’t prepared for the question. I’m cutting my trip short and coming back to the US this Friday. I just can’t take the isolation anymore. I need a support group of some kind to help me cope. There are so many I don’t know which is right for me. My company has agreed to pay the $1000 change fee. All my owner knows is that I said I had personal issues and needed to come back. His first question was if I was alright, and what could he do to help. He said they would get me back as soon as possible. Random acts of kindness. Restoring my faith in people is a big deal right now. There are women out there who won’t cheat right? If I ever date again I’ll have to require a psyche evaluation on the first date. Where a guy to go to find a well adjusted passionate women? I’m 0 for 2 at this point. Oh yeah, thanks to all that support this site. When there’s no one to talk to, and no where to go, this site is a life saver. Seriously. A few posts is all it took to keep me from trying to fly. You bridged the gap for me to get home. Thanks

  • Lorraine

    J,

    I bet every woman on here has tears in their eyes after reading your very heartfelt message.

    And YES, YES, YES, there are ZILLIONS of well-adjusted passionate women!!! And women who will be faithful and please don’t think that you are somehow purposely choosing such women who will not be.

    We are sitting here wondering the same thing about men! I have been hit on by 100s of married men… like they are out shopping for a new lawn mower. (I will not even consider dating a married man unless he can prove to me, that he is in an open marriage.)

    However, I firmly believe there is such a thing as a hot,sexy, passionate, beautiful lover who is also not a self-serving narcissistic prick. In other words a good, honorable guy who can act a bit “bad” in private. ;)

    I know, you’re thinking. “But you’re married!” And, as my husband told my shrink… “A marriage can be whatever two people want it to be.” And this is the point.. TWO people have to agree on the same thing.

    My ex-lover was also in the “lifestyle” (what a euphemism!!) except his so-called “lifestyle” didn’t include the woman he was LIVING with!!!

    At any rate, we and many others you will find, are here for you; you are not alone.

    God Speed!

    L

  • Sonya

    I have found most of this disturbing. I found out about 6 months ago about my husband’s addiction. We delved into the reasons for his addiction. He has done MUCH better since the admission. And believe me I check EVERYTHING on a routine basis. I check everything from the phone bill, computer histories, to car mileage.

    I came looking for support for wives who STAY. Not the “leave the bastard” comments I have found. I do believe there are addicts out there who truly want to get clean. I have a friend who was addicted to drugs for 25 years and has been clean now for 2 and a half. She struggles daily, but makes it her priority to stay clean.

    I feel like my husband is trying also. He goes to group meetings and never misses a single one. I have been with him a couple of times, as well. We talk about things. Sometimes he seems closed to me or to the probability of discussion, but he catches himself and tries to open up. I see his effort.

    I do realize that this could be a short lived thing. That’s why the continued checking behind him.

    The trouble we are having now is that I am trying to teach him how to love me. He does love me the only way he knows how. He was not loved as a child. Physically abused, verbally abused, sexually abused, any kind of abuse you could imagine. He was never taught to love. When I tell him what I am feeling, he really makes an effort to be better. I am trying to take baby steps because I do not want to overwhelm him. I am in the process now of trying to teach him how to SHOW me he loves me. The hand-holding, the kissing (which we have never ever done), the general closeness. Sometimes it gets under his skin and makes him nervous and aggitated. He feels smothered. I think this has to do with never having been loved. The women before me were with him because of money, not love. This never was a problem for him because he had no idea what love was.

    I am just in need of a little support on that front right now. I truly believe he wants to change. I believe he does love me in his way. But I want to hear from women who have been through this and are staying, not just because they need the right time, money, opportunity or excuse to leave, but because they truly love their husband and want to succeed in their relationship. I would like some advice on how to show him how to love. That includes in the bed.

    He is really confused right now. He doesn’t want to trigger his addiction somehow by having sex with me. So what we do have is very bland. It was never bland before the admission. He says he is afraid that his addiction will be triggered. I need some advice on how to spice things up without being a trigger or enabler. I want OUR relationship to be fun, but not at the expense of his sobriety.

  • J

    Sonya
    I’m not a women, but I can tell you about someone who is trying to stay. If you read my earlier posts, you’ll understand my situation. I’m just under two weeks into my learning about this, and won’t actually see my wife until two more days due to travel. She is, and has been in therapy and is doing online support groups. We have had some long dialog on what it will mean moving forward. Last night we had conversation about opening up our marriage. We had discussed in the past year (while she was practicing) but she said she couldn’t bear seeing me with another women. Odd, but that’s her feeling. She actually said that because of our previous conversations and me being opposed to letting only another man into our sex life that’s what prompted her to keep the secret. Our conversation last night started with trying to keep our sex life sacred and adding spice by having exclusive same room sex with other people, to her wanting two men without me being there. Pretty much just continuing her addiction as it is. She said she didn’t want me to see that side of her. We had always had a very dynamic sex life before all this, so there is no animal side of her I haven’t seen. We’re both very sexually driven people. I’m thinking this is more of her being ashamed of feeding her addiction and showing that to someone she loves. I told her that I would allow her to be alone with other women (she recently explored and now desires bi-sexuality), but if she is having sex with other men, I am going to be an active participant. I also told her that thinking about how she can still pursue other men, is not where her focus should be right now. She needs to focus on her program. I can’t and won’t spend my life having to check on her. I have to trust she will stay in program and do her work. If I come to terms that she is going to need variety, then I have to insist that I’m involved. For me there can be no secret side. A marriage for me can’t function in that way. For some people maybe, just not for me. For me to constantly have to check on her leaves me in a situation where I’m forced to police her actions. That can’t be my role. I can’t control what she does. I love her, but need to set my limits on how much I’ll allow this to impact my life. Always being a lookout will become an obsession to turn over every stone. It’s just not healthy for me to live like that, and doesn’t force her to be accountable for her own recovery. I will love and support her as I always have, but I can’t do that to the point where it negatively impacts my own mental health. Hopefully this is helpful, or supportive for you in some way. I hope your husband can keep his resolve, and you somehow can regain what you obviously have lost.
    God Bless

  • Lorraine

    Hun,

    I hear you… My ex-lover was a SA and a swinger—Please take my advice.

    Find another hobby. Exercise, knitting, reading, clipping grocery coupons.

    Seriously.

    Swinging is a life style choice but… it still has to go both ways… AND why are you guys talkin about all of THAT crapola already?!?!?!?! You haven’t even seen her in person! Aarrrgghhhh!!!!!! Sweetie, you are still in the discovery phase and you are in a state of shock and still recovering from something devastatingly traumatic… and I’m so, so sorry, cause it truly sucks.

    But, yes, keep talking about it, which is what you are doing and this is the best thing you can do, right now. Focus on you, not her. (I know its tough, but try) And, please try not to think too hard into the future and how YOU are going to make all of this work. It is not up to you. It is up to her to figure out how she’s gonna live in YOUR world, the one you’ve built together. remember?

    I have known a few swinging couples who’ve made this lifestyle work, however——– and this is a BIG however, they were in a very healthy, loving, sharing,caring give and take relationship to begin with.

    To jump into this anytime soon if EVER is not going to make your situation any better. Right now its a hand grenade with the pin pulled out. And why is it okay for her to be intimate with other women (without you) and not other men? Is it really? Please think about that. And again, she could say its a woman, but common… She has to first get well and become sexually sober, if she can. And again, I don’t know what the prevailing feeling is regarding alternative lifestyles with recovering sexual addiction.

    Joann, anyone? It is an interesting topic, because I think a fair amount of SAs are “lifestyle” people and can they ever go back to that with their partner’s consent? Or is it just a recipe for disaster?

    I truly feel your pain. I know you desperately want to make this all work out somehow, but I have been there and first, at the very least she must get healthy and learn to put YOUR needs ahead of her own– at least some of the time. She can’t bear seeing you with another woman? Well.. fuck her! Grrrr… Forgive me, but that kind of selfish behavior really pushes my buttons!

    She is totally full of shit with her lame excuses, etc. and all I want to do is slap her sorry face, so WHY will you just automatically love and support her as you always have? That IS sounding dysfunctional sweetie. She has to earn back that love and support AND trust. Otherwise, she’s just gonna keep on hurting you.

    Please just take care of yourself, right now. And its okay to be angry, too. I certainly am and I’ve never even met either of you! Why are you being so nice? She certainly isn’t. Maybe you just haven’t gotten there yet, but you will. We all do, eventually. And when you do…That’s when you will begin to truly heal. Unfortunately, there are no short-cuts outta this thing.

    Please take a deep breath, rest, eat well, drink water, exercise, get a massage and safe travels.

    xo,

    L

  • J

    Lorraine
    I can’t say that you’re wrong. I was terribly angry and hurt initially, but just beat it back down. It’s a learned trait. Way before my first wife showed me physical abuse and betrayal(never hit a women right?)it was my family. My father was an alcoholic, and my mother was totally lacking in the ability to show affection. She was however very good at discipline. My father was Irish-American Indian. The house motto was you slap a girl, you punch a boy. Mom picked up on that pretty quick. I was abused sexually by one of my older brothers. His friends later so I could join a club. I was 9. Dad died when I was 12. My brothers were gone by then and Mom was on disability. I started working on a farm to make money to pay the bills. As I read about dysfunction, it appears clear that due to my past, I just might be tainted. Taking care of people who abuse me seems very natural. Other than my current wife, I’ve never really discussed my sexual abuse. I think it’s time to pursue that. I apologize if that’s a little off topic for this board, but it certainly is relevant to why some people find it difficult to stand up to those who treat them badly. It’s funny because if you met me you would think I’m this happy funny smart guy, who really doesn’t get upset about much. I just fix the issue and move on. Makes me great at my career.I’m a devout workaholic. There is little anyone can do to hurt or bother me. The exception being betrayal from my wife. I seriously don’t want to pursue an alternate lifestyle. I really don’t like casual sex. It means something to me. Passion and intimacy mean way more than new and exciting. To your point I am just trying to find a workable solution to stay with someone who I inherently can’t trust. She has suggested I start going to AA meetings since they deal with co-dependency. I don’t know much about support groups (obviously) so I don’t know if thats the best place for me to start. I do know I need to go somewhere. Any suggestions?

  • Hey Lorraine,

    During the 60’s ‘open marriage’ was a familiar term. I think that a discussion on the subject would be quite interesting to those who might not understand the concept.

    I’ll do a post with some background and a few points of view and then let you and others jump right in.

    Thanks again for all of your insight.

  • Sonya,

    I started this website to support people like yourself who are in a relationship with a Sex Addict. My husband and I worked very hard to save our marriage and I think we are happier now than most couples.

    There is definitely hope for those couples who are willing to do the work and have the personalities to make significant changes in their lives. Unfortunately, most can not. I am here as an example of what can be done, but I also have to be careful to not give false hope that would encourage others to stay in an unhealthy and harmful relationship.

    If both you and your husband have the desire to make your relationship work, then I have no doubt that you can do it. And, all of us here would all benefit from hearing about how you handle the challenges and how you do make it work.

    Please keep in touch and share your journey with us.

  • Lorraine

    This is for J, mostly.

    That was a great email and it was totally on topic!!! If you can, can you copy it and keep it somewhere? There is an awful lot on there and I think it will be helpful as you move forward with your own recovery and growth.

    You had a very tough childhood. That wasn’t your fault and you learned coping strategies for some extremely abusive behavior. You’re a survivor!

    Workaholism, stuffing down feelings– are by-products and coping mechanisms. I’m the “smiley type” too.

    But, you made an enormous leap here with all of this! You don’t want casual sex. Bravo. and yes, it definitely sucks. (not the good way!) ;)

    “casual fun” in that context is an oxymoron, in my opinion; its for people who can’t love. Feel sorry for them. It isn’t you. This is a great first step! You already are way ahead of the game because you are not afraid to open up. You are going to be fine. You’ll see, but give it time.

    As for support… I don’t know where you live or what is available. Certainly, you need an excellent therapist and maybe some group therapy and maybe there is a reasonable not “beating down” (like COSA appears to be) kind of support group near you with some people in similar situations. And of course, there is us!

    Now, by the time you see this, you may be home. Remember to try and put your own needs first. It may seem awkward at first.

    Finally, I know my “little nightly affirmation” may seem kinda weird, but it might work and it might not and that’s okay too. I’ve had an occasional night when I’ve actually said “fuck you” to my “loving voice” (just because that was a really bad, sad day) and you know what? the voice just laughs in a friendly way and says… “That’s okay, I’ll love you L, no matter what.”

    Now, that’s a friend we all could use!

  • Sonya

    J, as for the variety thing, if she really loves you and wants to get “sober” then she will not need the variety. That was my husband’s excuse to begin with, before the admission. I had divorce papers drawn up and he was facing losing everything that had ever meant anything to him. Sounds to me like your wife isn’t ready to face her addiction and get sober.

    As for my husband, he is in a good place right now. He hasn’t spoken with other women, or seen any others. My drug addicted friend is his sponsor. Once we were talking about going as a group to the strip club. He politely declined and said we didn’t need to take the crack head to the crack house. Of course to that she replied, but I’m clean I don’t smoke crack anymore! (We had to explain the analagy, and then it was funny).

    My point is, that in a marriage, there should be no variety, as in other people involved in your relationship. Variety should be in what you do together, just the two of you.

    My husband and I are making progress. We talk constantly about where he is mentally and how he deals with triggers. We talk about how I feel. Sometimes it makes him uncomfortable, but he participates and listens. We make steps together for recovery. It is going well so far. After I posted last, we discussed my feelings of needing him to show his love for me, and he has done much better. I will have to remind him, because he will fall back into the “my side of the couch” thing, but communication is key. If I don’t tell him I’m feeling neglected, he won’t know. For him, “loving me” is not beating the snot out me. Don’t get me wrong…he has never touched me or anyone I know in anger. But when he was a child, he was beaten severely. So not to beat people is to show love for him. Again, something I am not at all used to.

    There were many things that led to his addiction. The main things were the beatings, verbal abuse and the sexual abuse he endured. In his mind, he needs to feel like a man, and many women feeding his ego was doing that. He has since readjusted his definition of a real man. Our late pastor helped with that alot. As he helped our drug addict friend, he helped my husband. He was the definition of a real man, even though he was only 25 years old and never married. He was compassionate and kind, and loved life. He helped talk with my husband and showed him how God defined a man. I think this helped tremendously.

    Now, we are actively working together to maintain the sobriety. I try to remind our circle of friends of the places we should avoid, and they kindly agree. They are our support system also. They do their best to help us maintain also. We do things together as families, to encourage the family atmosphere. No bars. No strip clubs. None of that. It helps. The guys even try not to send the “nasty” text messages they get.

    The key, (same as for a drug addict) is to remove yourself from the people who were influences in your life to do the things you are addicted to. My friend had to remove herself from the people she knew in active addiction. My husband had to remove himself from the people who were triggering and enabling his addiction. So basically it comes down to this….(Especially you, J), if you want to help your spouse recover from sex addiction, they have to first want to recover, and then they must remove themselves from the enablers. If you go along with the swinging idea so she can have her variety, you are enabling an active addiction, not helping the recovery. You must set boundaries and you must be firm. You must be willing to walk away completely if she does not abide by the boundaries. This is key in any addict’s recovery. Their loved ones must support them by setting and keeping the boundaries. You must not enable the addiction.

    That is the only way my husband and I have done so well to this point. He no longer speaks to the people who were enabling his addiction. This has to be what the addict wants for themselves, because if it is not what THEY want, it will not work. Fortunately, my husband was looking down the barrel of a gun so to speak. He was about to lose everything except his clothes. This forced him to admit his addiction and seek help. I have been here to support him, as well as my family and our friends. They have all been wonderful supports.

    Please do not enable the addiction. Please help your spouse remove the triggers and the enablers from their life. It is the only way for success.

  • J

    Thanks for all the kind words and advice. I’m actually going to see my wifes counselor with her in a couple of days. We then have an appointment later in April with the sex addiction specialist who diagnosed her. He has agreed to see me as a patient individually to help me deal with my issues. The return home has been really difficult. I’m driven to want to be with her physically. As hard as I’ve tried to push that down inside of me, it is consuming me. Even though she maintains that I’m the best physical partner she’s ever had, there is still this driving force inside me to see that again. We actually worked up to being intimate, but it didn’t end well. Typically my ability to perform when she was taking control was an area that made our sex life so amazing. When I looked up at her this time, I became completely impotent. The saying that men only have enough blood for one brain at a time certainly holds true. She was hurt because this has never happened in the past and blames herself for ruining a beautiful marriage. I was hurt because I really needed to feel like I was still able to be the man who rocked her world like no other. I’ve never doubted myself in the past, but self esteem is hard. We are going to slow play the physical part until we get some professional advice on how to deal with that. For me it means separate bedrooms. I can’t lie next to her and not touch her. It’s just how I’m wired. We had a Realtor friend come over to give us our options on selling the house, but since we just built it a year and a half ago (when all this started I found out)there really isn’t much hope in doing that any time soon. Selling wasn’t to run away, just wanted to give ourselves options in case things couldn’t move forward. We want a place either one of us could afford on our own, if living together became too difficult. I’ll write more later in the week after we go to counseling. My wife is actively participation in her support groups and therapy, but her issues of abandonment, and rape (her first sexual experience at 16) will take a long time to work through. I will support her as well as try and get my own mind straight. Oh, and to the power of prayer. I’m not really good with organized religion, but still do have a belief in God. As I was sitting in my company apartment in China before leaving for the US, I asked God to help me find some peace. To help put my mind in a place where I could find comfort. I knew sitting on a plane for 12 hours waiting for my reunion was going to be especially hard. As a gentlemen took his seat next to me, I saw him take out a bible and start marking passages. Just so happened that he was a protestant minister from Mexico who was in China looking at goods for his family store. I was able to talk with him off and on through the trip back. Similar to what Sonya posted, he told me people who try to control temptation are fighting a losing battle. The key he said is in first removing temptation from the environment, and then making temptation irrelevant by removing it as a pleasure center. In effect seeing it as harmful as opposed to something that has value. He reaffirmed my lifelong beliefs that sex is a gift between a husband and wife. The more people who share in that gift, the less value it has in the relationship. God intends for the gift to maintain it’s value. There are some who won’t subscribe to these beliefs, and it’s ok. For me though, it really is core to who I am. Always has been. Some people don’t believe in divine intervention, but for me, the chances of that Mexican minister sitting next to me, on a flight from China in my hour of need, is more than coincidental. For now I’ll start my days asking God to help me deal with my problems. I’ll end my days with “L’s” affirmation that I am always loved.

  • Lorraine

    J,

    I do believe that the Universe does give one what they need when they need it–even if at first it may not seem to be so. In this case, it was obvious–very cool stuff.

    There are no accidents. When you get to the other side of this, as painful as it is, there is going to be something good that will happen, IF this hadn’t happened first. This is a lesson that has been presented to you. I have seen this happen time and again in my life and others.

    Your wife’s sex addiction is not about you or your love for each other or your lack of ability in any way shape or form. Remember that she chose you, because you DO rock her world as no other man can!

    I was involved with a sex addict for an entire year and I cannot repeat enough. It is NOT about sex! It is about pathological needs that have nothing to do with love or lack of what one is getting at home. (at least not for the sex addict). For me, it was an entirely different matter. I wasn’t getting it at home. Nada, rien, nothing.

    The sex addict is seeking a high — period. I realize, that it would be easier to take if the high didn’t involve other people.

    I believe it is a need to alleviate some unresolved pain that lies deeply within and unfortunately, that need seems to over ride any consideration for the feelings of one’s closest partner in life. The sexual act is a powerful drug that makes the SA feel better, albeit temporarily and unfortunately, it is a progressive disease requiring more and more of the “drug” to achieve the same affect until — something has to give.

    Please be gentle with yourself and keep asking the Universe for help! It will come.:)

    Thank you too, for the update!

    xo,

    L

  • J

    We’ve had our first counseling session, and it was good to hear a professional point of view on what to expect. The reality is that yes, this is a long process to rebuild, and what we are at the end of this journey is anybodies guess. Even with the best intentions, relapse is pretty much going to be something that happens. I have decided to try and work through this with my wife, but redefined our relationship from married, to separated and dating. Marriage is a forever commitment, and at this point we can’t say that. The current agreement is that we will consider ourselves an exclusive couple, but if the commitment gets to be to overwhelming for her, we will just move on. In my head it’s easier to keep stepping down, than to make a clean break. I know she’s trying and that’s all I can ask. By no fault of her own she is damaged. I will continue to be her friend but through my own counseling understand that it’s ok to walk away if it gets to be something I don’t want to continue with. I can’t save her, only support her. Trust is hard, and it obviously still saddens me. At this point though, I’m also sad at the torment she has for allowing herself to be devalued (her words). I believe she will eventually work through this, and hopefully I’m still there when she comes out on the other side. I know I will always be her friend. In the near term, counting on anything more would be foolish.

  • Doubleminded

    I’m sick of being called a slut, whore, bitch. I’m sick of being told that I want to be with other men, that I want to watch him with other women…and men. I’m sick of being to have sex with other men when he’s not home and then tell him about it. Why can’t he get it? I tell him I don’t think like that and he doesn’t believe me.

  • Elise

    I am a Christian. And I have messed up sexually with every relationship. Not because I wanted to and couldn’t control my desires. But because I couldn’t say no. Guys would ask me to do things and inside I would want to die before doing them, but I did them anyway. It would disgust me and I would just hope that my husband wasn’t one of them that would act so pervertedly. Then I met my husband. We were good friends first. And our relationship slowly evolved into what I thought was a beautiful love. We had sex a couple months into our exclusive dating relationship. It was amazing. I wanted to. I couldn’t control myself around him. I wanted to do things with him and for him that used to repulse me. One snowy weekend we had sex 6 times. We struggled to try to stay pure but it was like we couldn’t keep our hands off each other. And then slowly but surely…things went pretty cold. Right after we were married I got pregnant unexpectedly. He made excuses that it was weird thinking “there was a baby in there”. Since I have had her our sex was just like most of you describe it. A wooden plank. I would sigh loudly after he jumped off and he would sometimes please me or promise me my own pleasure for another day. Or when I would ask him to “return the favor” he would sigh and say, “ok, roll over.” WTF? Now, since I have found out (a week ago) I couldn’t have sex with him. I tried but I just pictured all the crap he’d done. So he started kissing me like he hadn’t done since we first dated. And it went a little further and it really felt like old times. I stil couldn’t have sex but it was SO different. I really believe he loves me and wants to get better. I really want to have sex with my husband. Im just not sure I am there yet. And Sonya, for now, we are trying to work it out…if for nothing more than our 3 month old daughter and the sad fact that I still love him more than anything in this world. But I refuse to stay if he doesn’t actively persue getting better. Am I a fool to think that sex can and will become an intimate connection again?

  • Jeannette

    Elise,

    Marina posted on “Share Your Story” on August 9th, 2010 at 2:44 am an interesting website that had some very thought provoking ideas and perspectives on sexuality. I found it interesting and helpful.

    At one point it stated: It’s impossible to find love through sexuality. It’s impossible to use your body to hide your emotional pain. It’s impossible to heal your own emotional brokenness through the body of another person as mortal and broken as you are. [4]

    Isn’t that what the SA is trying to do in all the activities they pursue? The article may give you some food for thought to chew on. Just another piece of information to consider.

    – J -

  • LeannaD

    I recently divorced my very sick, sex addict husband, after
    37 years together. After reading the posts on this site, I feel even more assured that I made the right choice. I only wish I’d done it years ago and not wasted so many years of my life. After the divorce was final, he started going to SAA
    meetings (once or twice a week). He’s still the same asshole he’s been for years. I thought his “program” was going to make a positive difference at first but realize he is too sick and will never change. He has the maturity of a 10 year old. For years he was this very lusty guy who was
    interested in sex with me but when I hit menopause he never
    wanted to have sex with me again. I’m a health nut and look
    very good and also run marathons, so I do take care of myself. He also became VERY emotionally abusive. I can forgive but never forget the unbelievably cruel way he has
    treated me. Our daughter is devastated. She said, “this is
    not the dad I use to have.” – how sad! She told me once, (after a few wines), “you’ve given him enough chances!!” These narcissistic men destroy so many people and leave such
    devastation in their wake. After my husband lost his job, his
    marriage, the respect of his children, his beautiful home (I got it in the divorce settlement) and most of his retirement (gambling in the stock market), I asked him if his “whorgasms”, were worth it. He went into a rage and
    threw squished up banana onto my newly refinished cabinets –
    yeah, you read that right! What a guy! Call me jaded, but my
    advice for ALL women, (well most), is run like heck – find a
    nice normal guy – especially if you’re a young women. Become
    a detective and snoop on any man you get involved with to see
    if the man you’re interested in has a propensity for this.
    Alot of us tend to gravitate toward, yet another sicko. I’m being a realist here.

    Yes, being alone sucks at times but I was alone when I was with him. Now there are many times when I actually feel joy!
    It’s so awesome to be able to have women friends over, go out
    and not feel horrible because I’m wth a man who was always
    looking around for someone to connect with (some women have
    no shame), so he could go home and do himself. He even had
    our developmentally disabled son go up to women in stores and
    start a conversation, so he could talk to them! Using this
    sweet boy as his front man – sick!! For anyone who thinks
    I didn’t try hard enough – I stuck around (praying, begging, crying buckets of tears, barely able to put one foot in front of the other) for FIFTEEN years of this degradation!
    Now I say, “Free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty,
    I am free at last!”

  • Mayam

    Leanna,
    Thanks for sharing your story. How did you get your self back after so many years of torment? I’ve been seeing an SA for 3 years. As strange as it sounds, he’s absolutely wonderful with the exception of the SA behavior (for him it’s porn addiction, excessive staring at women in public, cruising escort sites online, emailing escorts and, though I don’t know for sure, possibly seeing escorts as well).

    I’m not ready to leave him but I often suspect I will feel like you when and if I finally do – like, why didn’t I do this sooner! My strategy now is to get stronger, rebuild my life and sanity and self-esteem enough to have the clarity and fortitude to do what has to be done.

    Any advice or info on your journey would be much appreciated!

  • LeannaD

    Dear Mayam,

    Getting myself back is a one-day-at-a-time walk with God, as my tour guide. I’m still not there yet and may never be, but
    I’m making progress. There are times when I still lay in my bed at night, alone and cry like a wounded animal. This happened a couple of nights ago so I got on my knees and asked God to please give me some joy in the morning – and He
    did! I loved my husband very much. He was always an extremely immature man but he also had many good qualitites.
    I used to tell people the thing I liked most about him was that he was kind. We had what I considered great sex and laughed together all the time. He was a great listener.
    He once rescued a stray dog, who was out in the rain. He was
    a loving dad and grandpa. I am crying while I write this…
    I knew that he had been abandoned and emotionally abused as
    a child. He also had been sexually attacked as a young man – although he put himself in a very dangerous place, hanging out with disturbed people. His mother was mean and abusive to him until the day she died. His dad basically checked out
    years before – letting his mom run the show. After our youngest daughter married – to a very disturbed man – my husband got into the internet. He told me this pushed him
    over the edge. He obviously had huge issues but kept them in check for years – until he entered the evil – and I really believe internet p. is evil – Thus, he evolved into an entirely different person. I spent
    the first seven years of this horrible journey, praying and
    believeing that I would have my husband back. After he went
    into a particularly ugly rage – basically desicrating my personhood – I started fighting back. I became someone I
    did not want to be – it was nothing for me to get in his face
    and tell him what a M F loser he was and I also would think
    how good it would feel to beat the crap out of him with a hammer or better yet, my fists! We lost all our mutual friends. I had to live a compartmentalized life – I had my life and my friends but could never let them near him. I once found a picture of a very good looking friend of mine, hidden in his stuff. My face had been cut out of the picture. I;m sure he used this to get off with. He also lost
    a half a million dollars, gambling in the stock market – which he still does. Lately, he’s taken to drinking quite a bit – way more than he used to.

    The realization of what my life had become, came a few years
    ago. I used to spend hours begging God to help me and rescue
    me. I met a woman from my church who was going through the
    same thing and she invited me to a support group for other women, who are all going through the same thing. This is what gave me the courage to finally get out. To get it, that
    I’m better than this – that I am a daughter of the King and He wants better for His daughters – and THAT INCLUDES YOU,
    Mayam!!! Life with a sex addict is hell! I don’t care if they are charming, can cook a gourmet meal, bring flowers on a regular basis – whatever, they are sick and have made a choice, somewhere along the way, to embrace darkness and perversion! If you believe in a Higher Power, ask for help and the strength to get out of this thing you’re in. THe longer you stay, the harder it gets, because this thing changes who we are! It weakens our core. A therapist told me,”get out or die”. Maybe not a physical death but the death
    of my soul. She also said, these men *rarely* really get
    better. They are to damaged. I still pray for my ex, every
    day, but I have learned I have to keep my distance. I refuse to join him, in the cesspool he has chosen to reside in.

  • Mayam

    Thank you again for sharing your journey. It helps.
    I feel like I’m still flailing about in all directions. A few days ago, I was writing on this site that I was going to definitely leave him after a few ducks were arranged. He didn’t know I’d discovered his online porn and escort activity. But he’d recently revealed to me that he’d had a few homosexial encouters some 25 yrs ago (supposedly). I don’t know why he disclosed this.

    Before I got those ducks in a row, we had a fight – he was angry about some minor perceived slight on my part and wouldn’t stop needling me. He could sense something was up, so he pushed until he ignited an explosion and the truth came spilling out of my mouth – I told him what I knew about his online habits – how he’d spend twenty hours a week watching porn and oogling the local escort ads – when he was supposed to be working or having dinner with me.

    He crumbled and sobbed and begged and promised everything and anything. I don’t know why I expected him to just walk away with his tail between his legs. I tried to end it. I told him over and over that it was over, that this behavior was deal breaking, that I couldn’t stay with him. But he seemed so genuinely ashamed and wanting to change. I agree to give it a few more months.

    So here I am maybe a week or so into that situation. He went to therapy immediately, goes again today. His therapist, according to my bf, doesn’t believe he’s a sex addict. According to him it’s just a poor coping mechanism he’s developed (fairly recently, he says though I know he’s been emailing escorts and saw a few prior to dating me, so that goes back 4 yrs!). He seems to feel super confidant that he can and will change. I suspect he’s not giving the therapist all the details.

    It’s not that I have hope that he’ll change. It’s like I don’t even care if he does. I feel so tired. I can’t fight his pleading, especially when I’m so confused as to what it is I want. I’m trying to dig back into my life but I spend hours a day online in support group type sites like this, desperate for healing strategies and understanding.

    I’m parenting my youngest (the oldest is away in school) who’s developmentally disabled (like your son), I’m renovating my new home (one of the ducks), so that I can move in before too terribly long (I’m hoping oct 1 but it may take a little longer), I’m resuming some volunteer activities and working some. I’m also exercising more – did 10 days of yoga in the past two weeks and hitting the gym, trying to eat healthily. I just want the confusion to end. I want clarity.

    I was reading today about Tiger Wood’s wife. There’s a story about her in People magazine. How is it the famous people (also thinking of the actress Sandra Bullock), just divorce these guys immediately and get on with life? I know it’s probably an inane question – perhaps tons of money and movie star looks make even marrying a sex addict more easily survived! I envy them their zero-tolerance, their not waiting and hoping. Maybe it’s the public aspect – maybe if everyone who laid eyes on me knew my boyfriend did these things, if tv shows and magazines were detailing my bf’s horrid behaviors and my humiliation, I’d snap out of my fog and get on with it. Maybe I should tell everyone I know! Just sing it from the rooftops – perhaps that will help me wake up.

    I’ve been through one abusive marriage and as hard as it was to get out of that mess and as long as my recovery took – my soul was killed – I did get past it. I regret waiting, I regret not doing the things that promoted healing sooner but I did learn that there can be a really good life, a better life after a break up. Being alone and finding your own success and joy and freedom from someone else’s crazy making is incredibly sweet!

    Yet, and maybe because it was so hard, I am slow to act now. I would have thought I’d have had no patience for this – it’s like abuse, it’s effects are like abuse. And yet, here I am tolerating it.

    I am in a financially precarious moment – a moment that has an end in sight thankfully. If I had more resources economically, I think I could move, so I need to focus on getting the ducks lined up with all of the energy I can muster.

    Leanne, your experience really speaks to me – I also felt my bf was so wonderfully kind – he is wonderfully kind – he is charming, we laugh a lot, he can cook a gourmet meal and the house is always covered in flowers – so funny you should say those things. He’s not mean or grumpy. He works hard and is well-respected. He’s achieved a great deal career and finance-wise. But yes, he’s incredibly immature – monumentally immature – like a preteen in many regards – his humor, his self-esteem – like a young awkward boy’s.

    I don’t know a lot about his childhood. There was certainly abuse. His dad was physically abusive to the mom and verbally to the kids. Two of his brother’s committed suicide, another is an ex-con with a drug habit and propensity to violence and the another is a drug user-recluse/weird guy. He has no relationship with either of his two surviving siblings nor any of his extended family, nieces or nephews or cousins. Things were obviously not healthy or happy in his childhood. But in the end – who cares? He’s 50-some yrs old with three kids. Time to take responsibility for healing his childhood pain and be a man.

    Thank you again!

  • Lorraine

    Mayam, first of all—-((((((((cyber-hugs))))))) I have been reading all of your recent posts, but not responding, because I could see that you just needed to write and work through all of this. I feel so badly that you are in such pain and conflict, so I’d like to jump in here, if I may, at this point. I actually think that you do understand the situation, and actually much more clearly than you claim, (based on your posts). I hear you trying to make sense of his “down the rabbit hole” world, but it is never going to make rational sense. I think you are just afraid and afraid that somehow, things might be worse if you leave him? But how could that be? This man is extremely sick and abusive and you sound like a really terrific, woman with a lot going for you. It pains me so much to see this man conning you as he has been… I am going to write out some of your statements, because, the answers lie within your own words! (my responses in parentheses)

    But he’d recently revealed to me that he’d had a few homosexial encouters some 25 yrs ago (supposedly). I don’t know why he disclosed this.

    (The reason he disclosed it, is because this is not just the experimental phase that some young men go through—It is almost definitely, STILL going on, and he is merely testing the waters to see your reaction. This is a skill that predators do to take over their victims– a little bit, then a bit more and then a bit more and oops—Your cooked!)

    He crumbled and sobbed and begged and promised everything and anything. he seemed so genuinely ashamed and wanting to change.

    (Yes, yes, yes, he’s a superb actor— Yes, indeed! Its a defense mechanism he’s been perfecting since childhood—probably as a means to avoid something far, far worse than a lie.)

    His therapist, according to my bf, doesn’t believe he’s a sex addict. According to him it’s just a poor coping mechanism he’s developed (fairly recently, he says though I know he’s been emailing escorts and saw a few prior to dating me, so that goes back 4 yrs!). He seems to feel super confidant that he can and will change… I suspect he’s not giving the therapist all the details.

    (not even close—he LIES honey… he lies to you, his shrink and even to himself–And IF he’s NOT a sex addict, then what my dear, is there to CHANGE??? Can you see, how nonsensical and absurd his statements are??? You do understand the truth and I’m so sorry, it must be excruciatingly painful to fully take it all in)

    it’s like abuse, it’s effects are like abuse. And yet, here I am tolerating it.

    (no “like”—EXTREMELY abusive, but try not to beat yourself up about it… This is tough stuff, but you have the power to not tolerate it)

    (As an aside—I also have a child with a disability. (autism). It is not uncommon amongst us co-dependent types, which I just discovered recently. Don’t ask me why or if there’s some connection. Just interesting.)

    Listen… Predatory sex addicts are USUALLY amazingly kind and sensitive and sweet—oh my—My Predator was— so absolutely delectably adorable—that is… until I didn’t want to have sex with other men in order to be with him. He became a vicious-screaming-in-my-ear-MANIAC!!! I understand that Hitler was also an extremely charming, delightful man, when he wanted to be.

    Hmmm… I see we have a lot of new information about PD’s childhood. This is very helpful. Now let me get this straight. Two brothers killed themselves and another is an ex-con with a drug habit and propensity to violence and a 4th is a drug addict/recluse????????????? Oh, my—oh my… oh dear…. Please, for the love of God… He grew up in a fucking HELL HOLE, the likes that you cannot even begin to fathom!!!!!!!!! I am 1000000% positive on this one. The evidence for this is so overwhelming, it gives me chills. Abusers were were almost always abused in childhood and your guy was put through the psycho-ringer. He wasn’t made in a vacuum, ya know.

    Sweetie, I know that you so wish that there could be something to salvage here, and believe me, I wish that too, but there is not— As I’ve said all along, Psycho Dude is a very sick, very twisted man who is preying (not praying) on your sweet, loving, giving nature. He will do and say ANYTHING, so that you will not abandon his rapidly sinking ship. He can rearrange the deck chairs, all he likes… Its not gonna change the outcome or the reality.

    It sounds like you have a good plan set for yourself and are doing amazingly well. My therapist told me (in general terms) once about a client of hers who found her true soul-mate at the age of 72; it is never too late and there is nothing to fear if you leave him. It can only get better. And it will!!!

    Stay Strong and keep asking the Universe for guidance—It will come–

    Love,

    Lorraine

  • Mayam

    Thank you Lorraine,
    You are very kind to respond.
    It’s all sinking in slowly in fits and starts. It doesn’t makes sense and I get that it never will. I tried for years to make sense of my abusive ex’s behavior but ultimately, I learned, there’s no reason. It just is. It’s not reasonable to hurt the person you can’t live with out to the point that she will leave you but that’s exactly what he did unrepentently and no amount of me thinking about it, talking about it, reading about it was going to change it. I’m actually not all that interested in understand sa. You know? I want to know in so far as it gives me clues to what my gut was sensing and I didn’t understand but I don’t want to understand it from the standpoint of why he did because that would suppose you fix it if you only the why was understood and somethings aren’t fixable and some things, even when they are, like this, aren’t within the realm of my influence.

    I was telling my friend today that it feels crazy because some moments, I’m just hanging out with him and everything’s fine and I kind forget. You know we go to the beach, like any normal couple, he brings a cooler and ice over, I make sandwiches and pack up snacks. We load up the car and get on the road, laughing and chatting easily, even about this sa situation, our feelings, strategies for dealing with it all. For minutes, hours even, the relationship feels doable, managable. Then, I wake up at 2 am and I remember something, some detail that’s taken on new meaning in light of what I’m learning about sa.

    I read a pamphlet about exhibitionism in sa’s. Now, my bf has never exposed his genitalia in public but I can’t tell you how many times he’s come out of a restroom with his jeans unbuttoned a few buttons – and I don’t mean at the top like you might do if you’ve eaten too much – he buttons the top but leaves the middle ones undone. He’s got underwear on and so it’s not like his thing is hanging out but it’s weird. And I am talking about when we are in public at a mall or restaurant or he’s in his car and he gets out in a crowded parking lot and the middle buttons are undone. Sometimes when I call this to his attention he actually undoes all of the buttons pulls his pants down and makes a big production of retucking his shirt and buttoning up – he definitely seems to want to call attention to himself but all done in this sort of accidental, “what’s the big deal” way.

    But he’s fastidious about his grooming, his clothing, his hair, that his belt matches his shoes, that his eyebrows are perfectly trimmed – so you know this isn’t some slobby type guy who just slaps on clothing haphazardly. If something’s not buttoned, he knows it. He wants to draw eyes to his crotch, he wants to see who notices, who mentions it politely, if he detects any attraction.

    Then I wake up thinking of something else I’ve read – how sa’s have fantasies that if women see their genitals they’ll be overcome with the urge to have sex with them. I know my bf thinks this. When he’s jealous because he thinks some man is hitting on me, he’ll threaten to go to yoga in skin tight spandex and suggest women will see his package and come on to him – he’s got all these delusions that women are going to hop out of their panties at the site of his fifty-some year old bits! He’s contantly accusing me of looking at his crotch and honestly, I’m not – that doesn’t do it for me! But he so wants to believe this that he imagines it’s so.

    So you see, I have a day or a few hours of denial only to have that denial invaded by a deluge of new realizations. It’s nutso! It’s part of the process no doubt.

    About the gay thing – wow – I never thought of that but you know it makes sense where no other explanation really does. I mean I can’t think why else he’d offer this up when I’ve asked him that question point blank many times and he’s always flatly denied it. When we were first dating he made references to some gay terminology for sex acts – terms I’d never heard before and I’ve been known to run with a gay friendly crowd – I had to ask a friend if these were actual commonly used vocabulary in the gay community and they were! I was dumbfounded – here’s this starchy, Catholic, conservative, married two -decades, little league coach well versed in the gay lexicon! How’s that happen??

    Yes, perhaps he was feeling safe enough to share that and perhaps leading towards more admissions. He had just recently met a male friend of mine who’s bisexual, so perhaps he was fantasizing about a threesome or some such craziness. I’ve always maintained to him when he was denying his gay experiences that I didn’t care if he was bi, so long as he was monogamous to me – he could like whoever but we’re in a relationship so not okay to act on it.

    Yeah, his childhood – well, like his adulthood, from the outside fabulous – wealthy, athletically gifted family of strapping boys, devoted stay at home mom, catholic school, etc and behind closed doors dad’s getting drunk to the point of delusional crazy violence, mom’s getting smacked around, the kids are being told what pieces of crap they are. I’ve wondered, did one of his older brother molest him, did his dad?

    I’m just going to keep digging in to my recovery process, get clear on how I’ve managed my anxiety, my stress, my pursuit of self actualization and joy – they are and were lacking – that’s how I got here. I have to work on myself.

    Thank you so much Lorraine!!

  • Lorraine

    HE TRIMS HIS EYEBROWS?????????

  • LeannaD

    Hi Mayam,
    It appears we have more commonalities. When I first met my
    ex, he told me about homosexual experiences, but being young and in love, I basically dismissed it. He had been with a
    young professor of his while in college, but played it down and siad it was “an emotional” thing. Later when we were
    married, we separated for a short while, and when we got back together, I found this mans phone number in his pocket.
    Shortly before we divorced, he told me he was not sure about
    his sexuality and could just as easily be with a man as with a woman. He is a misogynist and might be far less abusive in
    a gay relationship – I don’t really know. Ya know, it’s funny – but not haha funny – I still have times when I miss him. Like tonight. I think it’s him I miss anyway. I feel
    sad and alone and my thoughts go to him and part of me wishes
    he were here. I know if he were, it wouldn’t be what I need but I did have many good years with him. Also. my son, who has Down Syndrome, is pissed about him being gone and gets
    really stubborn and won’t do anything I tell him to.

    I fully expect this healing process to take a long, long time. Sometimes, I don’t know if I can get through it and then suddenly, in the midst of the sorrow, I’ll have a really great day or even days and I realize I am going to make it. I am looking for a really good therapist. One who
    fully understands sex addiction and what it does to the partner. One thing at a time…

  • LeannaD

    Oh, and one more thing. I too, have marveled at how quickly celebrities are able to extract themselves from these sick men. I actually wanted to post something to Elin Woods about
    how smart she is for doing so. Sandra Bullock too. I think those of us who are stuck, can’t help but think – you go girl!!

  • Mayam

    Yes Lorraine, he trims his eyebrows and plucks out any white hairs in the brows!! I’ve seen references on recovery nation to the fact that sa’s are usually fastidious about their grooming. I haven’t read about this anywhere in detail – why?? Is it because they are hoping for a spontaneous encounter at any time and want to be ready to roll? But yes, my bf is very metro-sexual in his grooming – he’s ridiculously spotless – it’s one of the things I really loved about him. I’ve encountered a few men in my time who were wealthy, smart, together and still seemed to have little grasp of how to actually get themselves thoroughly clean in the shower or how to take care of their teeth – middleaged men have bad breath and stinky bits!!

  • Diane

    Yikes,
    This is what my SA was like—he preened. Spent more on shoes than I did. We had no money to put both our boys in braces, but he had his teeth whitened. Ooooo. It’s creeping me out to think about it.
    I read somewhere they will also keep their pubic hair trimmed up “just so”. But I’m not going to go there. It’s good to have boundaries.
    D.

  • Mayam

    Hi Leanne,
    I’m sorry you were feeling some sadness last night. It comes and goes when we let go of someone we still love who’s toxic for us. It’s so different than letting go when you aren’t in love anymore. It’s good you found a therapist who’s informed of the issues – very important.

    I find my boy, who’s pre-adolescent, is getting into his defiant stage. My boy will certainly miss the bf. They had fun together. He always asks where he is, when he’s coming over on nights he’s not around.

    Oh the gay issue – it’s coming back to me in bits and pieces. References to gay culture, use of certain language and sex acts he talked about and preferred which jarred me coming from this ex-jock, macho, conservative, Catholic man. It wasn’t just that he knew some lingo. The comments, jokes, gay sex were ubiquitous. Even his insults were gay-centered – “cum guzzler, ass pirate, nob gobbler”.

    Isolated, some of these might be chalked up to every day homophobia or whatever – no big deal, but combined, it was striking. Still, I couldn’t reconcile the cloud of gayness he carried around with the rest of who he was – in particular, his attraction to females – me especially.

    He had no performance issues and was constantly in the mood, loved the female body – no squeamishness about any act or body part. This was not a gay man to my mind. And I didn’t really even think he was bi.

    I asked if he’d ever been curious about men or experimented as a younger man – I figured some men do and I wanted him to feel safe to tell me and he swore he never had the slightest interest. I just decided in my head he probably did have curiousity or did experiment but he was not going to admit it and as long as I felt he was being faithful, I’d let it go. I made so many excuses for his craziness – I believed that he was some repressed Catholic boy who only needed to feel accepted and safe to be who he was and everything would okay for him…and for us.

    As I mentioned he recently described these highly spontaneous and oh, so erotic gay encounters in college. I was thinking about that last night – how they probably were edited to be more along the lines of what he wants me to think. He claims a guy approached him in his dorm and just out of the blue offered him oral sex. He lived in the athletic dorm as he was on scholarhship and there were four guys to a two room one bath dorm set up, so he’s in the one bath room, which is shared and he claims the other guy just popped in and offered his services.

    Another incident he described was at a party and was a little more involved but again as I revisit the story – it doesn’t add up. He’s at a house party with his straight teammates and some gay teammate and he just end up fooling around – how? I mean he’s not going to risk someone at the party witnessing this and in my experience as college student and later a professor, the jocks don’t mix with the gay guys, at least not openly. They are severely homophobic – and twenty-five years ago it was a thousand times worse.

    He didn’t have many girlfriends. He’s only mentioned one beside the one he married when he was 30 yrs old -somewhat late for those days. Before her, he had a 6 mth relationship that wasn’t very serious. But if you knew him – he’s gregarious, flirtatious, hates to be alone, needs a relationship all the time and needs a lot of contact, affection and sex, isn’t really social outside of his primary relationship – it’s hard to imagine he was alone so much.

    So, from 18-30yrs old when he married, he had two girlfriends? And according to him he met his wife when he was 24 and they dated on and off, never lived together prior to the wedding. The other girl was right before he met the wife. So from 18-24 basically, he’s telling me he had NO girlfriend. That is impossible. Impossible. He’s in his fifties now and requires sex twice a day – when he was in his twenties – I can’t imagine how frequently he wanted sex – he couldn’t have been single. And he claims he didn’t do the one night stand thing, was never comfortable with that.

    Was he leading a closeted gay lifestyle as a young man, then settled down because he wanted kids and the respectibility of a hetero relationship?

    OMG – I’m in shock. This makes too much sense to dismiss. No wonder I was always suspicious that he had a secret. No wonder I could never feel at ease trusting he was who he said he was – what he’s told me about his past doesn’t jibe with who I know him to be at all.

    He wants to make it out like was happily single doing his sports and work and school and just not ready for a relationship for years and years- this guy is so flipping needy and horny and insecure, he couldn’t go five minutes without a relationship.

    Then he marries a super religious, uptight girl who’s going to keep him in line. He probably thought her presence would keep his inclinations in check. It’s like joining the army to pull your life together. He needed external controls imposed upon him.

  • Mayam

    Yes Diane,
    My guy is very into shopping, grooming and hair control if you know what I mean. Obviously cleanliness is lovely but it’s to an extreme not usually observed in men of a certain age – really men of any age.

    Mine has more clothes than I do and I’m no slouch. Wears sexy underwear, is always buying new colognes, even though I’ve made it really clear that i dislike male colognes – they’re usually too strong for me, plucks hairs, wears contacts, changes his clothes a lot, showers twice per day, exfoliates his face and buys bath and body products from department store counters more popular with females. He’s also obsessed with enemas and laxatives – is this TMI? Sorry ladies. Is this a gay thing??

  • Mayam

    Sorry Ladies – Posting again – I feel like yesterday was this light bulb day- All night I had a constant flow of realizations. Is this part of the process – you look back on events and reevaluate them – suddenly seeing what might really be going on??

    I was a little, a very little, bit hopefull after I disclosed to him I was monitering his computer and knew what I knew. He went to therapy, offered to be transparent, expressed some very real emotions and insights. I was guardedly optimistic – well, maybe not even that, maybe just not completely without hope anymore.

    Anyway, he’s showing signs of hinky behavior again around the computer. He knows there’s monitering software on his laptop, so I’m pretty sure he’s gotten himself a new one. The reason – well, he freaked out when I told him I was going to call his computer guy about a laptop for my son – freaked out – long boring story but the upshot is he had a panic attack and suddenly materialized with a laptop for my son in ten mins to prevent me from calling his computer guy. Then, he offered to give me his laptop yesterday (mine broke a few months ago when my kid dropped it and i’ve been using the desktop). He said he doesn’t need his anymore since he’s not surfing porn – yeah, right. So, he won’t have any computer for when he’s working from home and has to email or send files to the office or for any other of the millions of things we all use our home computers for these days.

    If he’d waxed poetic about feeling tempted to indulge and wanting to get the thing out of the house to keep himself honest – I actually might have fallen for it but this casual, “I don’t really need it anymore and I know you could use a new laptop” is just bs. He’s known I’ve needed a laptop for 4 mths now but that I’m waiting until my renovations are done and that it’s also been no big deal for me to not have one.

    He obviously replaced his with one that I will never see or touch or infiltrate and since he can’t resist being a people pleaser he offered to give me his – so he looks like hero, makes me happy and gets to go further underground with his activities all in one fell swoop.

    I’m depressed and angry. I’ve read about how the initial reaction of the sa is to preserve his relationship by saying whatever and then simply getting craftier about hiding their addiction – so I saw it coming but I hoped somewhere inside that it wouldn’t.

  • Diane

    Hi Mayam,
    I think you told us every thing we need to know. I don’t know about you, I’m just dying to hear from Lorraine in this one. I know she will have a “won’t want to miss it” take on enemas and laxatives!

    Mayam, you are going come out of this in one piece, with a great deal to offer this world. Remember that as you continue to surface the incriminating and upsetting realizations. You were clearly meant for more, and by God, you’re going to get something better than this.

    love,
    D.

  • Mayam

    LOL Diane – I’m looking forward to Lorraine’s response too. I’m sure it will come down to: what more do you know?

    Ugh – I guess all I need to know is how to get from here to there – there being away from him. It’s like I know this stuff but all of it exists on a plane somewhat removed generally from our day to day life. We sleep and eat and talk about the details and logistics of our lives. It’s like I have to remind myself that he might be gay, that he goes home and watches porn non-stop – it’s hidden from view most of the time. The curtain flutters open for only seconds.

    Ok – going to try to work on something else for a few hours here – have a great rest of your day ladies!

    Thank Diane for your encouragement!!

  • LeannaD

    Howdy!

    Feelin’ so much better today! It’s so awesome to have a place to talk to people who actually get it. I remember a few years ago, when I was in the thick of my agony, a friend told me I should maybe go to a doctor and find out if there was a reason why I “couldn’t please Randy”. Fake name, BTW
    – but fitting. I felt furious – her husband couldn’t get enough of her – she was the one who practically yawned her way through their encounters.

    Ex hubby was so not a metro! Einsteinian hair that he cuts
    himself – pot belly – bathes maybe twice a week. My little
    grandson made a joke – “Pop, you have more chins than China”
    Have to admit, he has cleaned up his act since the divorce.
    Even walked a couple of marathons. Even got some decent looking clothes. I guess when you’re still married and sequestered in your internet den for hours on end, there’s not much use for good grooming. He would shave and clean
    up a bit when going out to cruise with my son. This boy (ex) was also raised Catholic – school, not mass. Mass maybe twice a year. He’s 60, so that was back in the day when you survived parochial school. The nuns were equipped with rulers and adept at hand-smashing. He was a meek, quiet little boy, who was scared shitless, most of the time.

    I was thinking today, of how if he could ever own his behavior over the past years, I would feel very differently about him. He isn’t *just* a SA, he became so abusive, insulting, ragefilled and downright mean. He had a very short
    cycle of abuse. He was only this way with me, however. Now,
    I won’t tolerate it. He was at my house recently and he started raging because I asked him nicely not to park in the
    driveway (his car leaks grease). I immediately made him leave. He too, will say or do anything to get things to a comfortable status quo – it worked for years with me – but no more.

    Like your SA, mine had two girfriends before he took up with
    me. I am no longer denying he is most like leaning toward
    homosexuality. He did hang with gays alot back then and is
    more than a little supportive of all things gay. I remember
    when we were a new couple. He brought some amyl nitrate over to experiment with. No one but gay guys, used that back then. He also was very enthusiatic about A sex. Face it, something very few women enjoy. What is hard to explain is all the good, seemingless close years we had. No telling though, what he was thinking about when I thought he was with me. One thing – he never did like stuff like music and candles during sex – in retrospect, I think it got in the way of his fantasy. I also, think he likes the idea of being a hetero – he may even be Bi – but he told me recently
    he hangs out at the library alot now and that the gay guys
    don’t hang out there, like they use to. He also wants to
    go back to a thrift store I told him about that is run by
    both gay and lesbian folks, to raise funds for HIV. Another
    thing – he told me about a guy at his meeting (and trust me,
    he’s mostly secretive about meetings), who he really wanted to speak to after a meeting. Later he told me the guy was
    gay. Hard to believe I could block so many things for so many years – denial is a powerful thing!!

  • Lorraine

    Hey—busy work day! Thank God biz has picked up!!! It really helps to be busy, that’s for sure and saw my shrink too!!!feeling much better right now—Hope it lasts for a while!

    Oh Mayam and Diane, you’re on to me—haha!!! I’ll try not to disappoint. ;)

    So much to read and what sweet goodies do we have here on this late August eve??? Oh my— I love Psycho Dude so much—He has set himself up perfectly. What a guy— between the eyebrow plucking,(that is just so ick, I can’t stand it) facial exfoliating,(no) enemas, laxatives(yes,he’s full of shit) perfumes, bubble bath, and body lotions—The only remaining question, I have is…

    Is he a “bottom” or a “top” or both??? :)

    Geeeezzzzuzzz!!! He couldn’t be fruitier than an ambrosia salad on a banana boat in Bali! Have to say that I have often wondered about my predator as well… A very boyish metro, he is–so, so cute!…(well, as cute as a snake can be) He even confessed, one time that he has done some botox. Yes, indeed—that’s what he said… and a dude would never lie about somethin like that! Mmmmm… So sexy, isn’t it? But, even though he adamantly stated that he was NOT gay,(many, many, MANY) times me thinks the lady doth protest too much, if you get my drift, and he loves his male/female couples.

    Gotta laugh girls, cause thats pretty much all they are good for. The most hopelessly, somatic, narcissitic, deranged, pathological ones, that is.

    Now—hmmm… I’d like to share some of my fave phrases that came outta Predator’s fekked up mouth and some of it is the SAME wording used by PD!!

    Here goes—

    “In the PAST, I did blah—-“… (eg: In the past, I had a partner that I swung with, went to a sex club with, did DP with, drank my piss…etc.”)—That could’ve been 10 years ago, 10 months ago, or 10 minutes ago—10 minutes, is the closest answer to the TRUTH.)

    “I have a “friend” who’s on TEN dating sites” (no friend, hahaha… dudes don’t talk to each other about shit like that!!! We do, but they don’t. Again, they will use the “friend”, to see the reaction, from you.)

    “I don’t really—-“… The word “really” is a BIG RED FLAG.
    If he says, I don’t really need a laptop anymore, it means— I DO need a laptop anymore, otherwise he would simply say. “I don’t need a laptop anymore.”

    See how it works?

    Its the same with the word “just”. (there is no “just”)

    “It was JUST one time.” (again, numbers are arbitrary and meaningless coming out of an addict’s mouth)

    And “a couple” (this means a number that is greater than ONE, but, it is never ONLY two–more like a couple HUNDRED, or a couple THOUSAND!)

    eg: “It is ONLY a couple other women, that I see, Lorraine.”

    (no “only” either)

    This is what they do—

    I think that the anger is good sign Mayam… You are rapidly cycling through all of the stages of grief and loss and it can go back and forth between all of them,(even after a year, I still find myself doing this, but not nearly as badly, and this is normal as you are processing all that has happened and your realizations which are growing exponentially, each day. I think that you are doing really great! Hang in there—You already know the salient points… Keep working on your plan. We’re rooting for you!!!

    xo,

    L

  • Mayam

    So happy to read you’re feeling better Leanna! It is wonderful to have found this community. I can’t thank everyone here enough for reading my rants and raves and thoughtfully responding and sharing.

    To your post – Yes, we block out those little details that don’t make sense – precisely because they don’t make sense. I did try to fit it these little anomalies into the puzzle each time they arose. I did question in him in a non-threatening and non-judgemental way but he denied everything and the gay stuff didn’t fit with a lot of other compelling facts.

    I don’t know about you Leanna, but I monitored his porn usage for 2-3 mths on a daily basis and snooped intermittantly the two years prior – twice I found evidence of gay porn – while his consumption of straight porn (and pretty vanilla straight porn at that) was unbelievable. His escort emails and cruising were always directed to females.

    I have known many women who were lesbians in college and then graduated and went on to have happy hetero lives, and they seem to believe the lesbianism wasn’t so much sexual preference as it was a safe place to be as a young woman away from home for the first time.

    Perhaps my bf had been molested as a kid and initially related sexually more comfortably to men or maybe he fell into homesexuality because he was afraid of women. Then when he did finally land his first (and only) serious girlfriend, he married her, because he was too terrified to go back out there and meet another one.

    So now, perhaps, he has transitory gay longings or erotic memories, which explain his rare forays into gay porn, and his preferences for certain sexual behaviors learned early remain intact, only now he wants them done to him by a female. I think this is something he could never admit to – not to anyone – not to a therapist or his most trusted friend, which is me, despite how compassionate and accepting he must know I would be. It’s not about me. It’s about him not being able to accept himself – Lord, that sounds cliche -but I really believe that he just can’t come to terms with who he is. But of course our secrets poke out and don’t like to be supressed, which might explain his constant references to asses and all things homosexual!

    And now, as much as I may get it or want to get it, there’s this other piece – the porn addiction, the escorts. He could work through whatever ails his soul but perhaps his pysche is just too fragile to really go there. Perhaps he would come undone and on some deeper level his mind is protecting him from a total unravel. This may very well be as good as it gets for him – managing deep seated pain with a sexual addiction and chronic lying – maybe he just needs to find a better victim – a girlfriend who won’t catch on, someone naive and more trusting.

    For me, I know I’ve not been living as fully realized as I can be – I’ve had times in my life where it felt pretty close to living my heart’s desire, fulfilling my purpose on the planet but I’ve drifted so far away from there. This relationship has been a wake up call and I intend to work as hard as I can to make my life sing – to realize my goals, to stop wasting time on dumb relationships and people who assist me in staying stuck and unproductive.

  • Mayam

    The lady doth protest too much – perfect Lorraine!

    He’s a bottom btw ;) Though when he tells his stories of being with “a few” men “a long time ago” and “just” “a few” times, he’s always the top ;) Go figure.

    I love your little rules – yes “really” definitely a red flag and the friend thing, so true. Men don’t share that stuff. I have also found this in reverse though as sometimes pD will claim something a friend did or has or said came from him – he also constantly changes the source or info – sometimes his daughter said it, sometimes a friend said it, sometimes whoever – you get the idea – the truth is so mutable in his world.

    Leave it to me to fall in love with a gay-curious or formerly gay or bi or who knows what – sex addict. Gotta love my picker!

  • LaLunaMar

    Hi everyone. I am going on a road trip – figure a new perspective will bring some clarity. I cannot really afford a vacation, but I will fill up my gas tank and sleep in my car, just to do this. I have to process the pain of the revelation heard round the world (it feels that big) and I know it is gonna take time, and some new scenery. Doing whatever I can to stay off the computer, to stop spying on him, to stop obsessing about where he is, and who he is with and what they are doing. I have to get the image of his suddenly shaved pubes out of my mind, because I now know his “dom” did that to him… so she could tie his privates up without pulling hairs. I scrutinized the pics of body parts on her site wondering if any of them were his. I know too much now because all I do is obsess over this scene he is into. This BDSM stuff is new to me and in 1 month, I have become an expert. I heard this song we all know on the radio, and really listened to the words this time. I do not want to be this person in this chain… links in the chain of fools, aka the women he uses and has used. He can stay tied up if that is what he is into, I refuse. JoAnn if this whole post is inappropriate feel free to take it down. I won’t be hurt. Thank you for providing a safe place to express. See you in about a week or two. Love to you all, and treat yourselves better than you have been treated. My goal exactly. ~ M

    For five long years
    I thought you were my man
    But I found out, I’m just a link in your chain
    Oh, you got me where you want me
    I ain’t nothin but your fool
    Ya treated me mean
    Oh you treated me cruel
    Chain, chain, chain
    Chain, chain, chain
    Chain of fools

    Every chain, has got a weak link
    I might be weak child, but I’ll give you strength
    Oh, babe

    You told me to leave you alone
    My father said ‘Come on home’
    My doctor said ‘Take it easy’
    Oh but your lovin is just too strong
    I’m added to your
    Chain, chain, chain, etc.
    Chain of fools

    Oh, one of these mornings
    The chain is gonna break
    But up until the day
    I’m gonna take all I can take, oh babe

    Chain, chain, chain
    Chain, chain, chain
    Chain of fools…

  • My dearest LaLunaMar,

    Sharing our pain is what this site is all about. That can never be inappropriate.

    Enjoy your vacation, free yourself from the chains, keep yourself safe (I worry about you sleeping in your car–safe places are well-lit truck stops–and they have bathrooms and showers. Just watch out for the truckers.) and contact us when you get back.

    This will be a wonderful retreat for you. I did a similar adventure when I was fired from my job (that worked out great–I won a very hefty lawsuit three years later)–and I had just kicked Larry’s sad ass out. I was in the pits of depression, so, I said, ‘Fuck it’ and spent a month backpacking my way through Europe. It was the most empowering thing I have ever done.

    I hope this will do the same for you.

    Hugs and we’ll be waiting to hear from you.

  • Mayam

    Enjoy the road trip! A change of scenery can be so uplifting and truly give a new perspective.

    M

  • LeannaD

    I’m super tired tonight. I drove to the beach to look at some
    property, had dinner alone and thought of all the fun times
    my ex and I use to have in this town. Then, I drove home cuz
    it’s suppose to be my weekend with my son but ex didn’t bring
    him home yet. I’m way better when I have nothing to do with ex. I’m going to have to set strict bounderies for dropping off and picking up my son.

    Mayam, you are so perceptive and insightful- boy, do you have
    my ex figured out – I could relate to what you said about
    manageing his pain with sex addiction and lying – and he can
    lie without missing a beat – I’ve often said the truth is not
    an option for him. I can see him totally unraveling too. One
    thing he does is assume different personalities. It’s like he
    has no core personality. I even have names for them. If he needs to be assertive in a business situation he talks and acts exactly like his brother, who is 12 years younger and
    way more together (I think). The brother was mom’s golden boy – the only one of her kids she was decent to. Other times
    he takes on the persona of a teen – everything is, “I’m like
    happy you can go” and other teenspeak. He has others but I’m too tired too think about him anymore tonight.

    La Luna, have a wonderful, serene and peaceful time. I find
    just getting away from the sickness can immediately transform
    my attitude and outlook.

    JoAnn, thank you so much for starting this wonderful website!
    I am also a nurse. I’ve only just begun to explore the site but it’s wonderful to have a place to share openly and be heard nd understood!!

  • Mayam

    Leanna,
    It is good your have some time to meander around and think or not think. I hope you enjoyed your evening.

    I suppose one day we’ll be thankfully for the good memories. They won’t make us sad or angry or wistful. Actually I know this is true. With my ex husband, the abuser, I’m so indifferent that while I might wince at a memory of his bad behavior, I’m thankful for the good and I don’t feel sad about the bad. It was bad but it’s over and I’m glad for that and thankful he’s also still involved in my son’s life and very committed to our boy. I couldn’t do it alone.

    It will happen. It’s an empty spot – perhaps a canyon that needs to be filled with new people and activities and memories and dreams and it will be filled over time.

    My bf is here now sleeping. He’s been as close to cracking as I’ve seen him. My getting support and moving towards healing is killing him! He was much happier when I was lost in the funhouse mirrored maze of his crazy making and lying and he was getting away with his precious addiction.

    His personality is consistent – imagine lots of jokes about asses and gay sex but he has lots of inconsistencies. This is a made-up example, just in case he ever finds this place: If I’m thinking of getting a pair of Nikes, he’ll rant, “You don’t want Nikes. Everyone has NIkes. Go to the Converse store and get something different.” Next day, I go to the converse store and he says, “Why are you wasting your time there, just go and get a good pair of Nikes.” He passionately espouses one preference and denounces another and than the next day flip flops just as passionately with no explanation or reference to the change of heart.

    When I think of some of the lies he’s told to make himself look cooler, more accomplished in something or more impressive (though many of the lies just have no rhyme or reason), I cringe for him – he’s a middle-aged man telling the kind of lies a six year old might tell. How sad is that? He has so little self after over five decades on the planet that he makes stuff up to fill in the blanks. It’s so easy to hate him for some of his lies and so easy to feel so deeply troubled and worried about him when it comes to others.

    I feel compassion for him. I feel angry as hell that I have to give up the good parts because this bad part is so ridiculously, monumentally revolting.

    Well, off to bed for me too. I had a sort of productive day. Got some creative work done and some house stuff so not a totally wash.

  • sanityregained

    OMG OMG reading this thread is like a zillion light bulbs flashing and am so blinded.

    I walked out on an 8 year relationship.I wasn’t aware the day i walked that he was a psycho(I went to a psychiatrist after i walked to help me understand him ..just so that it would help me with my closure).I wasn’t aware of anything at all the day i broke off.I just knew that he was one sick man and i didn’t want to be treated the way he was treating me.

    MY psy told me he had all the signs of a psycho.its been 5 weeks and i have been reading up.I stumbled on this thread when i was googling on various traoits exhibited by psychos.Everything fits.

    And what Mayam said about her guy..omg its unbelievable.Everything about his personal habits that always struck me as strange have been described to a T

    And Lorraine your comment ,as usual, was priceless..the one about him being full of shit wrt laxatives n enemas.

    My guy was also always so obssessed with his “stomach clearing” as he callled it that i always got a full daily report on it !!!

    Have to run..but am definitely posting here again about his preening habits so much like a peacocks !!!!

  • sanityregained

    Mayam i am in shock.

    It seems as if we are talking about the same man.

    As you so rightly said, i too had a lot of pieces which did not fit.Some incident narrated, some stray comment passed which struck me as unusual and which did not gel with the larger picture.When i questioned very mildly pointing out the discrepancies, he would stick to the story knowing fully well it was absurd and i would be too embarrassed to point it out to him and would drop the matter.

    But,very much like you, these absurdities remained stuck somewhere in my subconscious, even as far back as something said 8 years ago.

    And after having walked,i started to read up to understand and as you put it so well it all comes back in fits and starts.

    1)Cleanliness freak..he and his environment are both always so spotlessly clean its unnerving.I am a pretty neat and tidy person myself but he took cleanliness to a next level.And to find this trait in a man is very uncommon..i have never seen it in any other man..not my brothers, nor father,nor friends.At the cost of sounding sexist,its more of a feminine trait.He would see a spot of
    dirt somewhere and would pick up a duster or a tissue and wipe it clean.He did that in hotel rooms too !!!(spillover of gayish tendencies???)

    2) Personal grooming..he could beat a peacock hands down at the preening !!!.Always perfectly attired,manicured and pedicured,colored hair and mousctache(so as to conceal the greys),body lotions,face washes,face creams..you name it.
    In his hotel room ,once he unpacks ,you ought to see the number
    of bottles lined up on the counter.
    He used body and face moisturisers more than I did !!Would turn paranoid if the bottle was empty and he forgot to replace it..always ensured that there was a spare one lying around.Took about 5 minutes to moisturise his body after his shower which he did twice or thrice a day.

    Everytime he washed his hands, be it post a meal,or whenever , for whatever reason, he reapplied hand lotion.Everytime he washed his face and after every lovemaking session since we would have kissed he would reapply lip balm.

    He would have showered in the morning, we would have spent the entire morning in the hotel room without stepping out,he would be catching a 3 p.m flight going back to his home city (we live in different cities)and he would shower again at 1,wear a fresh pair of clothes,formal shoes etc etc.I always thought its as if he is expecting to meet someone.Mayam , as you so rightly put it.Its as if he is always dressing up keeping in mind some stranger he may run into and wants to be perfectly groomed,just in case.

    I am a good dresser myself.But there is a difference,albeit a very slight unnoticeable one, when you dress for yourself and when you dress for attention.

    Even when we went for a stroll,he would be perfectly groomed.Sheeeesh..the list is endless and mindless.

    3)Shopping..That again was an AHA moment for me.I love good things in life but shopping for me is always functional never recreational.I enjoy doing it but i dont get any thrills or kicks out of it.He does.

    Let me give you his perspective on shopping.I told him all that i had found out about him(multiple affairs,online chatroom pickups,listings on adult friend finder,pickups from AFF,texting multiple women simultaneously going into wee hours of the morning,4..5 hours fone calls to women the nite thru,same special unique term of endearment that we used for each other,used with another girl 18 years younger than him, darlinging , honeying an sweethearting women picked up on chat, a complete deception on the divorce front,innumerable lies..some majorly significant.others so stupid i wonder why does he expend time and energy in making such things up,throwing at him a text he sent to me “its so beautiful here baby..want you with me” when he was enroute for a first time rendezvous he set up and flew 1000 miles for to be with this girl 18 years younger and whom he picked up from a chat room etc etc)I told him all this stuff, he broke down completely crying hysterically that he got breathless denied everything on that day.was a complete wreck for 3 days .On the 4th day he changed and got majorly aggressive. I didn’t cow down as i used to earlier and stood my ground.Intentionally i became a little softer, he again started the drama crying etc etc.In the midst of the ruins and rubble of my dreams and hopes and my lfe and his deception and broken promises he promises he will make things alright he will change and says he will take me SHOPPING the next time we are together (All this was on the fone)(In all of the eight years he has given me 3 bottles of perfume..i din’t need anything from him)

    Till today, i don’t know whether to laugh or cry at that.I mean i am not dependent on him for money at all.I earn twice the amount he does, anyways.And he thinks of taking me SHOPPING as a cure for all the ills.

    Is shopping a panacea to him? Or does he thinkthat buying stuff for women is all that it takes to get away with all that he does?(I later found out that he had completely lied to me abt the status of his marriage ..there was no separation no talk of divorce no filing of papers nothing..and he bought a lot of jewellery, car and a spanking new house for his wife.I think the wife knows but he has managed to HOODWINK her.Poor woman.The other women he was having affairs with were all much below him on the financial ladder so i guess he must have spent money on them to get what he wanted.)

    Sorry to be ranting like this.All this stuff is so trivial in the larger scheme of things that one feels stupid even talking about it with people who haven’t experienced this.It is only on this forum that one can unburden and expect to be understood.

    Thank you ,JoAnn , once again.

  • berkshiregal

    Calling the partner of a sex addict a co-addict is bullshit. Do we always have to take the blame for his behavior? Are there any real men out there? I’m tired of this convoluted, self centered, lying behavior. He’s a liability to my family. I’d rather be alone the rest of my life that deal with his twisted life.

    • Mother

      If you dont know about his sex addiction HOW can you be a co addict?? my daughter thought she had the perfect guy so inlove married 13 yrs together 15yrs.. she found out 3 days ago he has had sex with other women for heentire time 15 yrs of lies and deceit.. he went to a sex therapist. but he makes her feel sick.. told her he has had sex for more then he can count.. my daughter is gorgeous but obviously that has nothing to do with anything.. she has had problems with her uterus for years,, putting it down to a yeast infection each time.. turns out she was infected by an std he passed on a long time ago..and was misdiagnosed since she said neither had any other sexual partners.. yet there he was screwing every day.. grr i want to face him so bad but i am out of town atm.. and trying to leave it up to my daughter to handle the way she feels is best for her.. i told her to see an attorny

  • Lori

    I have found this site so helpful. I found out almost 4 weeks ago my boyfriend of 9 years has been living a second life. He has had online relationships with old personal friends/online chatting/phone calls. He fits the bill as a SA. The pain, rage is like nothing I have experienced after I found out. Our sex life was tremedous the first 6 years. He is out of town for 2 weeks. Has agreed to some counselling when he returns. My question is. I have been very healthy sexually most of my adult life. I embrace it in a relationship. Will sex be different with a sex addict? Will we still be able to get to that higher place? The eurphoric feelings you get when you are making love to the person you love. I tried to locate info on the net on this subject. This is still all new to me. Iam learning lot about him and myself the last 4 weeks.

    Learning alot in this group. Thank you all.

    Lori

  • Where to start, an all too familar story, after finding some strange emails 18mths ago my husband confessed to having been unfaithful for the past 10 years of our marriage. Shock is just not the way to describe how I felt, I felt like a train had just hit me I felt a physical jolt when he was telling me. To cut a long painful story short, there are still so many things I struggle with and maybe you ladies out there who have been thru this can help me and maybe understand me. I struggle with who these women were, he has told only a small amount of what went on and feels that it is better that I don’t know the details where the brothels were etc etc as this serves no good purpose. But if I am honest I am in a catch 22 it is painful to know and not knowing is painful, I feel like there is a gulf of past lies between us. Another question I have for you ladies is regarding sex, ever since he told me he likes me to straddle him on top every time we make love. I can’t help but think that this is how the prositutes probably performed and shudder that this is why he likes it this way. I have so many more questions I could go on forever. He is a good man and is trying really hard to get back on track and regain my trust. We have been married for 24 years.

  • Diane

    Dear Lorraine2,
    “I felt like a train just hit me”. Boy, do I know that feeling. I was married for 30 years.

    Listen Lorraine2, first let’s celebrate that it didn’t kill you. You are hurt badly and deeply. But you are alive and we are all about you cherishing your life. How that needs to be done is your discovery journey. We will take that journey with you, but it’s yours to discover.

    Meanwhile, the learning curve on SA husband’s is ugly, steep and merciless. After a while you may not want to know any more. The truths are awful and cut deep into the vault of marital intimacy. But you do need to educate yourself so that you know how to look after yourself–like getting tested for STD’s if your SA has been “around”.

    re: straddling—this seems to be a popular position because he can look at your body and fantasize about somebody else’s. And it’s less work for him. Yes—lazy still applies. There is porn for every preference, but a lot of it has the men very passive—the women are doing all the work all the time. The men stand there or lie there silent and pretty still, while women suck and fuck. It’s quite a utilitarian approach. Occasionally he reaches out a cops a feel as an afterthought, or because he’s losing his erection.

    so maybe you weren’t making love. I guess that’s the hard thing to consider.

    You don’t mention whether your husband is in a program or working with a therapist. I hope he is. But you need one yourself. You need a caring listener who understands the “hit by a train” trauma. That will give you a safe place to express the things that are particularly painful for you, and explore the options that scare you most.

    thank you for posting and letting us in to your story. I send you lots of light and love for these hard days and nights.

    Diane.

  • Diane

    Thanks for your reply, actually made me laugh the comment about ……while women suck and fuck”.

    It has been a hard and long journey but also one of great self discovery. I have been in therapy and so was my husband, plus we saw a counsellor together for a while. My husband would like to go back unfortunately his therapist moved and he will have to find another one. I have not told any of my family or friends what has happened I just cannot bear the judgement that would be brought down on my husband. Also I want to protect my kids, this would scar them for life as they love and respect my husband so incredibly much.

    My husband says he feels that he has woken up out of a terrible nightmare and cannot believe what he has done, he said he even believed for a while that I would be ok with it, such self deception. We have discovered Buddhism and meditation, which we practice each morning, we also listen to a lot of dharma, we also discovered Ekhart Tolle. I don’t know how I would have managed to get thru all this without these tools.

    I was tested for STDs because he did have unprotected sex at times, thankfully it came up clear.

    Many times I longed to meet a group of women that had been through a similar experience, I asked my counsellor if there were any such groups and she had not heard of one. I wished that I had discovered this website some time ago it would have helped ease my pain.

    Thanks for your kind wishes and I send them back to you.

    I have been through so much shit in my life but somehow I always find something to laugh and smile about so I am thankful for a happy heart.

  • Salty

    Just came across this, and I have enjoyed reading these posts so much. I’m looking for some feedback… I’ll try not to ramble. Its been two years since I found out my husband was hiring massage parlor prostitutes. I did a few months of 12 step meetings and we did some couples counseling. I accept what happened, still a little angry for sure, and more hardened. I liked the “separated but dating” comment. That’s where I’m at, though husband still wants the full-blown marriage and sadly I don’t feel the commitment to working on regaining intimacy.

    We mostly have a friendly partnership with sex, and lots of great sports and hobbies and almost all of our time spent together, with our 2 pre-teens. He really is a good guy and I like him and what we have. I don’t want a lot more, not now. He complains that he wants more “dates,” intimacy and spontaneous passion, and to feel wanted sexually. Yes, this is GOOD for the SA who previously only wanted sex. I wonder though, if his neediness is healthy or symptomatic. Read further before you judge my description of “needy…” He was in 12 step for one year and I believe is sober, is communicative, caring, etc. He wants to be with me all of the time, and have only mutual friends. If I have an evening exercise class after work, he’ll call 2x before for no good reason, and 5 minutes after class ends, before I’m on my way home. Irks me a lot. He used to call my parents the day after I had a long convo with them and shared it with him. Why? They found it strange at the time. He says doesn’t understand why a married couple would want to spend time apart. I want more independent time, and girlfriend time. I have no good girlfriends because of full-time work, kids, and having a best-friend husband…didn’t spend the time relating to girlfriends. I want the freedom to spend time cultivating some new friendships with women, but I’m afraid to ask for the time off to do it.

    I need a sounding board… how much time can/should/do married folks spend apart from each other? I know its subjective and needs to be comfortable to everyone, and COMPLICATED because of our history and his and my own issues. Is a Saturday or weekend with friends once a month unreasonable? I question his rationale: “You have more free time than I do, almost every Thursday night for an exercise class. Sure I spend Saturday sporting with friends once in a while. You don’t realize what you have.”

    Is it me.. an aversion to intimacy? Does he seem needy and controlling? Am I a foot out the door? I wish I knew but I am a little afraid to dig in to find the truth.

    I feel better just for having gotten this down. But would love some opinion. I expect some criticism. I can handle it. Thanks.

    • Hi Salty,

      I am so sorry that you have to deal with all of this.

      Please understand though, this site cannot support back and forth commenting. It is primarily an informational site with comments allowed only to address the subject of the story or article. It is not meant to be a ‘forum’ type of a site. The hosting program that I have only has so much bandwidth, and when that is used up the site will shut down for the rest of the month. I have already received two warnings this month and I am near that point.

      If you would like a more personal experience where you can share and comment and post as much as you like, I have the Sisterhood website, which I talk about on the home page here. If you would like more information just check it out here: http://sisterhoodofsupport.com/subscribe

      Thanks for your cooperation. ~ JoAnn

  • Kimberly

    Salty, First of all,{{{hugs}}} now, why would anyone criticize you? I think that you are amazing! There are many aspects to this post, but first of all, why do you think you have issues? I don’t see anything significant unless you call suffering from intense emotional trauma an issue, but that’s like saying a woman was raped and now she has “issues.” You are suffering from an intense trauma at the hands of this man, a man who took vows to love and protect you. hmmmm…. So why WOULD you want to have sex with this guy or even be close? How could anyone want to be close to someone capable of such cruelty. It is absolutely NORMAL to be turned off by a man who is not only so unbelievably controlling but betrayed your trust and paid skanky, disease-ridden sex workers to fulfill his unfulfillable need for “passion” and “intimacy.” what a fu*king joke!

    I do not think that your husband is a nice man. He may ACT like a nice man, at times. But the operative word is ACT. He is not nice and he does not truly care for your well-being, so please get off of that notion. He cares for HIS well-being and if you happen to fit into what it is that he needs then everything will be fine, but his needs are extreme! But, then we try to convince ourselves that it must be us? really? do you think that you have that much power? you don’t. It would happen to any woman that he is with. Think of him being married to your daughter. Wouldn’t you want to rip his fucking head off for doing what he did to you to her? Of course you would. So why are you any different? Where is the anger Salty? Why are you making excuses for him? He’s a scumbag. Sorry, but he is. I also enjoyed my SAH’s company very, very much. We had a wonderful relationship, he’s a terrific father and he is THE nicest man. He’s the guy the elderly neighbors enlist for help. Yeah… he’s a really “good guy.” But please, please, my husband and your husband have several cards missing from their decks, so if you want to play the game, be prepared for some massive difficulties and losses.

    And for the love of God, go out with your girl friends! Even in the healthiest of relationships, it is vitally important to still retain one’s autonomy. You are NOT joined at the hip. You are NOT one person! So, if he needs a wife who will spend every waking moment with him, he is being completely and utterly unreasonable and YES grotesquely needy. Sounds like he has substantial mommy issues. Mom must’ve been cold and critical of him. He needs constant approval, constant approval of his manhood and his prowess. but you are not his mother nor another appendage as he would have you be. What sane woman could put up with that? I could not live with such a person. Go out every night if you have to. He may not be acting out sexually, but hun, he is still acting out with these controlling behaviors. He is sick, but you can’t help him and more importantly, you can’t change him, either. So, if you can live with him the way he is then stay, and if not, then leave.

    Turn off the effin phone. Tell him that your private convos are PRIVATE. Draw your line in the sand. This is what is acceptable. This is what is not. Decide what YOU want. Its not you; it is him, but my fear is that he is going to keep dragging you further and further down until you have completely lost your sense of self. Its already starting to happen and that is something that disturbs me greatly. It doesn’t have to be that way. Please take care of you and know that you are a wonderful woman trying to navigate some very treacherous waters.

    Do you have your own talk therapist? It might be helpful if you don’t already. I doubt that was what you hoped to hear but just know that you are alright!

  • Sanityregained

    Sally,

    It is so unnerving to read your story.This describes the behavior of my SA to the t, with a litle difference.I was involved with a married SA who told me his divorce was underway and what hell his married life was blah blah blah.Yes I fell for the oldest con in history.I found out that not only there was no divorce on the way but he was a full blown addict including sex with hookers.

    His behavior with me was exactly as you describe it..I did not have any friend other than him during my entire relationship …it was only him.he was equally possessive right down to calling me withing 2 minutes of the end of my exercise class.

    I found out later that he was the same with his wife!!!!!

    I took that as his emotional dependence on me.

    I now know that it was nothing of the sort.

    it was this behavior which never ever led me to even think that he was involved with so many women.

    Ditto with the wife.

    He would accompany her even when she went to spend a few days with her parents.

    I think it is all a ploy to make you think that they are so much into you that you wouldn’t ever dream of them being unfaithful.

    They play this game so well and it robs you of a life of your own.

    With me it went a step further..whenever he called if he found my phone busy it would upset him so much that gradually I even stopped calling people.

    I am nom longer with him now and I look back and wonder how he managed to brainwash me so much.

    I just know one thing that if you need someone so much you don’t do anything that would jeopardize that relationship.

    All this behavior on their part is just to make you belIeve that they they are into you totally so that you never ever think of them being with others.

    Beware

  • Kimberly

    Dear Mother,

    Welcome! I am visiting my 91 yr old mother now… who also happens to be a marriage and family counselor. I asked her for the zillionth time, just minutes ago… “how come he couldn’t be devoted to me?” I know the answer, but that doesn’t stop me from asking it again and again… He couldn’t because he can’t. And it wouldn’t matter if he was married to Marilyn Monroe or Angelina Jolie. He was programmed to self-destruct.

    Your son-in-law is a sociopath.

    He married your daughter as a “front.” its a sham and its the most vile disgusting thing a man could possibly do to a woman short of murdering her. In fact, murder would be kinder. Before I say anything more. She must have a total gynecological workup including a test for HPV. Most men have it. ALL sex addicts DO have it and some strains cause cervical cancer.

    Your daughter’s instincts are spot on. She must leave him. I gather that she’s still fairly young. It will be alright. She needs therapy to help her navigate all of this and a really tough lawyer. He is going to hang onto her like a drowning victim. He knows how to play her like the finest Stradivarius, but it is not real. He will claim that he wants to change. WHY? because she found out? “oh thank you dear wife for discovering my dark, dirty secret and stopping me from this life of depravity!”

    right.

    You’re a wonderful mom. Support her and validate her decision to divorce. It IS for the best and YES, its best for her 12 yr old daughter. My therapist mother has told me that one out of five of us roaming the planet is a victim of incest. With a father for a sex addict??? I wouldn’t bet on that pony… nosiree!

    It takes years to heal from this. I had several D-days before I realized that my husband was not going to change. They very rarely do and the ones who were cheating before marriage and its now 15 years later, never do. They never change. They can’t. Part of their brain is missing and you can’t put back what was never there to begin with.

    Oh, and he’s not nice to ANY women. He’s a misogynist. He hates women. All women. This is all about control. He uses different methods to control different women. He’s just a sick fuck. That’s all.

    My best,

    Kim

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